Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[kidalutz]

Nobody is new but they might have stopped playing healer for awhile to level other classes. If they were already nervous about healing before a long break would just give them the added detriment of being rusty. Hell I haven't leveled my tanks in a good long while and I'm liable to be doing baby pulls for the first couple dungeons with each of them just to get used to the flow again - even with the added ease of keeping aggro these days. They also could have a disability that makes it harder for them to react. It hasn't happened in awhile but there was a stretch of time when my joints stiffened up in my hands and would shake just enough that reacting with any amount of speed was challenging. I could still heal but if the tank wanted to multi-pull in dungeons without having good gear or using cooldowns right it could sometimes be a struggle to move. I kept myself out of raids while that was happening but asking for some consideration during casual dungeon runs wasn't asking all that much and most people understood.

That isn't to say you shouldn't try to help people improve but taking the stance of 'you should be this good by now, get out if you aren't up to standard' absolutely helps no one.

it's Van Arn kick everyone is thier creed no point in trying to change thier headmeat.

[Bright-Flower]

Nobody is new but they might have stopped playing healer for awhile to level other classes. If they were already nervous about healing before a long break would just give them the added detriment of being rusty. Hell I haven't leveled my tanks in a good long while and I'm liable to be doing baby pulls for the first couple dungeons with each of them just to get used to the flow again - even with the added ease of keeping aggro these days. They also could have a disability that makes it harder for them to react. It hasn't happened in awhile but there was a stretch of time when my joints stiffened up in my hands and would shake just enough that reacting with any amount of speed was challenging. I could still heal but if the tank wanted to multi-pull in dungeons without having good gear or using cooldowns right it could sometimes be a struggle to move. I kept myself out of raids while that was happening but asking for some consideration during casual dungeon runs wasn't asking all that much and most people understood.

That isn't to say you shouldn't try to help people improve but taking the stance of 'you should be this good by now, get out if you aren't up to standard' absolutely helps no one.

Yep. Other than people just lacking skill, reasons to do single pulls:

Latency/lag issues.
Returned to the game or job after a break from it.
General tank/healer anxiety. (Not everyone has this but it is a thing.)
Not out gearing the instance. (Not giving a free pass to outdated gear, I just mean not OUT gearing it.)
Still new to job. (In this specific case, applicable to Dancer and Gunbreaker, could still be learning a bit at Bardam potentially.)
First time running the new instance and being cautious.
You notice the dps aren't aoeing anyway.
Pnysical handicaps slowing reaction time.
Getting used to expansion job changes.

Also...the game doesn't exactly do a good job of teaching. It's just as easy to go through the msq without learning to do your job properly as it is to boost a job and play it poorly. Ideally, yes, anyone who gets to Bardam's Mettle would know their job fairly well, but the game certainly doesn't require it. Someone who boosts a job and spends some time at a target dummy ironing out the rotation will perform better than someone skirting through the msq to level cap doing the bare minimum. So it doesn't hurt offer advice even at higher levels. Not everyone who plays poorly is going to be welcoming advice, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.

[van_arn]

One half of this statement is wrong, and the other is exactly why so many people view gamers as terrible people.

It's a levelling dungeon, which is where people learn to play roles and jobs. Don't like that? Stay out of levelling roulette.

Or kick the people that can't hang. A healer that can't heal is an easy kick, especially when they haven't learned the lessons the earlier dungeons teach.

A kick in this situation is the best help you can give an underperformer, since they've willfully ignored all of the lessons to this point.

While it's true to a certain extent you don't know what you're going to get in a roulette, the reality of voting is that goes both ways: not everyone is going to put up with a player that has progressed too far for their ability.

If the block of progress causes someone to quit or stop healing, then that's a lot of other people spared terrible runs from an apathetic healer.

[van_arn]

Yep. Other than people just lacking skill, reasons to do single pulls:

Latency/lag issues.
Returned to the game or job after a break from it.
General tank/healer anxiety. (Not everyone has this but it is a thing.)
Not out gearing the instance. (Not giving a free pass to outdated gear, I just mean not OUT gearing it.)
Still new to job. (In this specific case, applicable to Dancer and Gunbreaker, could still be learning a bit at Bardam potentially.)
First time running the new instance and being cautious.
You notice the dps aren't aoeing anyway.
Pnysical handicaps slowing reaction time.
Getting used to expansion job changes.

Also...the game doesn't exactly do a good job of teaching. It's just as easy to go through the msq without learning to do your job properly as it is to boost a job and play it poorly. Ideally, yes, anyone who gets to Bardam's Mettle would know their job fairly well, but the game certainly doesn't require it. Someone who boosts a job and spends some time at a target dummy ironing out the rotation will perform better than someone skirting through the msq to level cap doing the bare minimum. So it doesn't hurt offer advice even at higher levels. Not everyone who plays poorly is going to be welcoming advice, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.

None of the reasons listed are reasons for randoms to put up with you at Mettle. If they see someone that should be replaced, they will be replaced.

If any reasons you've listed need special consideration, form your own parties or take a gamble with df-- just don't come crying to me if the people you're matched with rather get someone else.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

Was doing the level 71 dungeon with a friend who was trying to get to 73 so he could spam the next one. I was DNC, my friend was DRK. The healer was SCH and the other dps was DRG. He does the big pull and we wipe. Its no biggie until he checks gear and notices the SCH is wearing left side Scaeven gear (which is more than sufficient for the duty) but their entire right side is LEVEL ONE ACCESSORIES. Like...the weathered ones you get when you make a new character. I mean a jump potion gives you a full set. The only thing I can think of is that they bought a SMN jump and used whatever tomes they earned from doing SMN stuff to buy the main Scaeven healer pieces but WHO EVEN DOES THAT? Their skill wasn't bad, but even though my friend wanted to boot them we tried small pulls untill we got to the second boss and all their aoe attacks. There we wiped. I told them, very politely, that their resources were not sufficient to the duty and they agreed and left. I mean I can see that stuff in ARR or even HW a bit but 71? Really? I just can't...

[Kanitezz]

Nobody's new at Bardham's mettle. Even if they used a skip, they need to be shown the door if they can't multipull by then.

Or. You could be one of the people who offer up advice instead of shunning them for human error. Will literally take you all of 15 seconds to POLITELY type up a piece of advice for whoever you think is hindering the party.

It's really not that hard to be nice. What's the problem here?

[SturmChurro]

Nobody's new at Bardham's mettle. Even if they used a skip, they need to be shown the door if they can't multipull by then.

For sure. I won't fault anyone for kicking an underperformer, just like I won't fault someone for kicking me for being 'elitist'. It actually isn't that hard, I admitted it was "partly" my fault. That's me just being nice, I should have used all my cd's since it was before second boss, but I shouldn't have had to. Different meanings. All cds is too much, immunity because of emergency and not as a regular cd is too much. I rotate cd's frequently.

it's Van Arn kick everyone is thier creed no point in trying to change thier headmeat.

I think he just has a realistic view of the game. Sometimes it just isn't worth adding serious amounts of time to a dungeon just to be nice to someone not performing as well as they should. I will advocate having them kicked, just as much as I will advocate having me kicked if that is what the team decides. No grudges. If that player gets kicked it's because the group agreed with it.

Or kick the people that can't hang. A healer that can't heal is an easy kick, especially when they haven't learned the lessons the earlier dungeons teach.

A kick in this situation is the best help you can give an underperformer, since they've willfully ignored all of the lessons to this point.

While it's true to a certain extent you don't know what you're going to get in a roulette, the reality of voting is that goes both ways: not everyone is going to put up with a player that has progressed too far for their ability.

If the block of progress causes someone to quit or stop healing, then that's a lot of other people spared terrible runs from an apathetic healer.

Finally someone who gets it. If they can't heal, a dose of reality is exactly what is needed in this kind of scenario! It was like trying to explain it to a wall.

None of the reasons listed are reasons for randoms to put up with you at Mettle. If they see someone that should be replaced, they will be replaced.

If any reasons you've listed need special consideration, form your own parties or take a gamble with df-- just don't come crying to me if the people you're matched with rather get someone else.

Yes! You shouldn't have to expect a player who cannot perform adequately to be grouped with you. You should expect the reverse. You should expect them to know how to play their role at an average level, if they can't that is their fault.

[KaleShibata]

Or. You could be one of the people who offer up advice instead of shunning them for human error. Will literally take you all of 15 seconds to POLITELY type up a piece of advice for whoever you think is hindering the party.

It's really not that hard to be nice. What's the problem here?

Pretty bold of you to assume van_arn is going to be nice today.

[PeppermintBrown]

If a healer can't heal at all sure. If they can't heal wall to wall pulls, I wouldn't kick for that, I'd just do smaller pulls.

[van_arn]

Pretty bold of you to assume van_arn is going to be nice today.

I'm plenty nice. I just don't buy excuses for people to be a detriment for years.