Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Veis_Alveare]

I'm with you, if the tank doesn't want to pull bigger.. is it really anyone elses place to force them to? The dungeons were technically designed to be one pack at a time, if you want optimal runs PF is the way to go. DF you take what you get. Especially if you're meeting minimum standards. Complain if someone is just standing there or actually failing to do their job, but sometimes you're gonna get someone who isn't interested in sprint clearing and if they simply ignore your attempts to request it.. most of us take the hint and just get it done.

The "if you want to play a specific way use PF" argument works just as well when you flip it on a single-pull tank; if you want to go one pack at a time open a PF that says so, if not keep up with the flow of traffic.

If it were a dungeon that the healer was risking the party's survival in by pulling for the tank I would understand the kick... the thing is it's Xephatol. You can do it with 4 dps, tank and healer are literally ornamental there since the way level syncing works means we outgear it by about as much as it's possible to outgear something.

The tank was a whiny baby who happened to have friends with him. He may have gotten his vote kick passed but you can't say he's acrually morally correct when at the end of the day he kicked someome who was only making the run faster. That's like kicking your top dps for killing the enemies too fast.

[Krotoan]

The "if you want to play a specific way use PF" argument works just as well when you flip it on a single-pull tank; if you want to go one pack at a time open a PF that says so, if not keep up with the flow of traffic.

If it were a dungeon that the healer was risking the party's survival in by pulling for the tank I would understand the kick... the thing is it's Xephatol. You can do it with 4 dps, tank and healer are literally ornamental there since the way level syncing works means we outgear it by about as much as it's possible to outgear something.

The tank was a whiny baby who happened to have friends with him. He may have gotten his vote kick passed but you can't say he's acrually morally correct when at the end of the day he kicked someome who was only making the run faster. That's like kicking your top dps for killing the enemies too fast.

He wasn't lacking at his job, he just didn't want to go as fast as possible. Which, while lamentable for someone who is pressed for time or doesn't WANT to do 1 pack pulls , isn't unreasonable. I don't like that it escalated to someone getting kicked who WAS doing their job.. but if someone asks you not to do something beyond the basics of the encounter why do you have a right to make them exceed set standards?
It doesn't work in reverse because the standards for the Dungeon are being met. If you want something special you PF, if you want a clear you do DF and you take what you get. Clearing the content and doing your basic function is all can be expected.
Tank reacted badly sure, but making people run things beyond basic standards if they don't want to isn't good either.

[Veis_Alveare]

He wasn't lacking at his job, he just didn't want to go as fast as possible. Which, while lamentable for someone who is pressed for time or doesn't WANT to do 1 pack pulls , isn't unreasonable. I don't like that it escalated to someone getting kicked who WAS doing their job.. but if someone asks you not to do something beyond the basics of the encounter why do you have a right to make them exceed set standards?
It doesn't work in reverse because the standards for the Dungeon are being met. If you want something special you PF, if you want a clear you do DF and you take what you get. Clearing the content and doing your basic function is all can be expected.
Tank reacted badly sure, but making people run things beyond basic standards if they don't want to isn't good either.

But the healer wasn't forcing the tank to do anything. There was no talk of "hey tank! Get these enemies off me that I pulled!" and (judging by the apparent competence of the healer in question) there wouldn't have been because that healer would know that even if they were holding threat on an entire trash pack they were still fine.

The tank doesn't have any right to be the first one to hit something as long as the person going before the tank understands that they're going to take a few smacks to the face in the process. In a lot of content this isn't viable because the healer may not be good enough to keep multiple people alive or the enemies may hit for too much damage; since nether was the case here the tank's complaint boils down to "I'm the tank let me go first" which is just throwing a temper tantrum for no reason.

[Rilifane]

As a healer, I actually never ask for bigger pulls if a tank chooses to do small packs; I automatically assume they don't feel like pulling big, they are back in tanking after a while, maybe undergeared or else. In the end, it's a 5 minutes difference in the dungeon, it's alright. (And sometimes you have Tank and Healer ok with big packs but painfully bad DPS that make it harder)

If you want to speedrun roulettes, do it with friends because you can't guarantee you'll be matched with people that have the same mindset than you.

I do encourage tanks to pull bigger because many tanks are simply mistrustful of random healers and I understand that. You can't be sure you have decent healer who can keep up and even if the first packs seemed to be just fine, a certain mistrust often remains.
Many aren't against pulling bigger at all, they simply don't trust what they get via DF. Understandably so. There's a reason this thread is over 2k pages long...
I write something like "you can pull bigger if you want, I can handle it" and assure them they don't need to be afraid they overdid it just because they droped quite a bit. So far, most were happy to oblidge.

[Nononu]

"You can make bigger pulls, it's okay."

It's normal Copperbell. I can't. I wish I could, but I can't. The dungeon won't let me.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

"You can make bigger pulls, it's okay."

It's normal Copperbell. I can't. I wish I could, but I can't. The dungeon won't let me.

That and the problem with early dungeons is that most classes can't do AOE, so the trash mobs don't die very quicker anyway.
Stupid 'you need to be level 40 to AOE' DRG-restriction, grrr...

[HyoMinPark]

"You can make bigger pulls, it's okay."

It's normal Copperbell. I can't. I wish I could, but I can't. The dungeon won't let me.

That and the problem with early dungeons is that most classes can't do AOE, so the trash mobs don't die very quicker anyway.
Stupid 'you need to be level 40 to AOE' DRG-restriction, grrr...

I get really sad when a tank will do larger pulls in the leveling dungeons and I’m on a job that doesn’t get an AOE until their level 40s—had one the other day in Stone Vigil when I was level 41 on my alt (leveling NIN) who did fairly huge pulls with two NINs in the party. Neither of us had Death Blossom yet so we were like “Katon every 20s...yaaaay....” Healer was also an AST so... “No Gravity...yaaaaaaaaaay...” (Tank was a PLD... and I don’t think you have Total Eclipse until level 46 so BIGGER YAY...)

Honestly, that’s something that needs to be fixed. I think all classes should have access to an AOE at level 20 at the latest.

[Keddera_StormMoon]

I'm sorry, but I remember how speedruns as a newbie nearly turned me off to this game. So if the tank doesn't want to pull big, I just roll with it rather than pretending my time is more valuable than anybody else's.

I've had DPS try to tell a tank to pull bigger, and I've chimed in with "Pull with what you are comfortable with. I'm your healer, not them".