Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Saphri]

I should be fair here; Not every "elite" player I've run across has been insulting or rude. Some of them have been helpful and I've made some improvements thanks to their advice. I've still a long way to go before I can keep up with them though.

[KaivaC]

I'm a "mediocre" player.
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Early on, people were very nice and helpful. Then, as I started getting into the high 50's and 60's, it changed. I thought I could play OK. I do alright in the main storyline duty's
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As it turns out, I'm not that good and I'm just wasting the "elites" time. I try to do well, I really do, but I just can't keep up.
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So now, when I come to a dungeon in the main storyline. I stop there for the night. I go online and try to research the dungeon so maybe, just maybe, I'll not be too much of a burden to these "elites" that have already done it a dozen times and are just looking to speed-run it and rack up experience.
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I wish I could try the dungeon "cold" at least once, I wish I could explore the dungeon and find the hidden secrets, I wish I could socialize with the people I'm meeting in game. Isn't that also part of the game?
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Maybe the Devs should create an "Elites Only" Duty Roulette and Duty Finder. I'd be happy to stay out of their way..

So...what exactly happened that caused you to post this? You say 'you're wasting elites' time', but that doesn't exactly say anything. What troubles are you having? Plenty of us on the forums could chime in if you gave us more detail. It looks like you're maining a bard going by your profile on the left...what troubles are you having with bard at the moment that you feel like you're wasting peoples' time?

[Ceridwenae]

I'm a "mediocre" <snip!>

Although you're not being entirely specific, I think I understand! I don't think I've ever been called out on the bard for how I play (although some days, I should be - I mean, I just had an epiphany last week about what it is I'm supposed to be doing, and that's only happened because I've been playing alts spamming 15-50 stuff. What can I say? It takes me a while to get a handle on stuff, even with really good guides!), but on dragoon, I feel I have the suck in post-50 stuff. It's discouraging, to say the least, and I'm too scared to go into dungeons, even if I sort of remember them, because I really don't want to waste people's time either.

For me, however, I'm happy to hang on until my hubby decides he's playing again (he's off and on right now), and that'll be enough for me to start spamming those dungeons. It's good to have a competent person on Discord chatting through how to do stuff! For you, maybe it's time to do a linkshell or FC for similarly-minded individuals? You know, if you start something up, specifically stating it's exploratory in nature etc., perhaps you'll have better luck in finding what you want.

Also, I didn't even map Toto-Rak until I ran it with my squadron. You don't get every dungeon with them, and there's only Sohm Al post-50 right now, but I find for what's available you can just pootle about finding all the places you wouldn't ordinarily. If you have that option, consider it!

I've had the odd run when a player has simply asked upfront if all corners can be uncovered. If the party doesn't want to do that, spam the dungeon again until you get one that does - you'll also be better at said dungeon after taking lots of passes at it (this is what I've been doing on alts in sub-50 content, and honestly, it works, and I think I'm a better player for it).

And lastly, any time you go into a new dungeon, tell your party it's your first time (make a macro for it if you like!). If you haven't been in there for ages, and think you might be a bit wonky, tell your party. Do your best, and endeavour to improve where possible. You will get there! And don't worry about the jerks. You can and will become a better player with time/practice/etc., but they will always be arses! That said, do still try to follow what they're saying, and find something constructive in it. They may fail entirely at communicating their thoughts in an empathetic kindly manner, but there could be useful information contained within. Ignore the elitist stuff (you know, the bobbins that usually starts "how come you got this far without knowing how to...?" and also may contain misspelled words and/or expletives), and poke about for anything that will actually help you.

Finally, if I've completely misunderstood your post, pls ignore and have a lovely day! Carry on, don't mind me, etc.

[Saphri]

So...what exactly happened that caused you to post this? You say 'you're wasting elites' time', but that doesn't exactly say anything. What troubles are you having? Plenty of us on the forums could chime in if you gave us more detail. It looks like you're maining a bard going by your profile on the left...what troubles are you having with bard at the moment that you feel like you're wasting peoples' time?

I rarely get helpful advice, I just get insults for not being good enough. Every now and then I get someone who's helpful and I'll learn something but, for the most part, I don't want to even want to go into these dungeons because I'm just going to be insulted. There are obviously some nuances to this game to the point were I "don't know what I don't know...."

[Saphri]

...I think I understand! I don't think I've ever been called out on the bard for how I play (although some days, I should be - I mean, I just had an epiphany last week about what it is I'm supposed to be doing, and that's only happened because I've been playing alts spamming 15-50 stuff. What can I say? It takes me a while to get a handle on stuff, even with really good guides!), but on dragoon, I feel I have the suck in post-50 stuff. It's discouraging, to say the least, and I'm too scared to go into dungeons, even if I sort of remember them, because I really don't want to waste people's time either.....

....Finally, if I've completely misunderstood your post, pls ignore and have a lovely day!....

No, I think you've got it and that might have to be my solution for the time being. As I come to these dungeons, I'll see if I can get my guild to come with me. They at least understand that I'm still working my way through the game.

[KaivaC]

I rarely get helpful advice, I just get insults for not being good enough. Every now and then I get someone who's helpful and I'll learn something but, for the most part, I don't want to even want to go into these dungeons because I'm just going to be insulted. There are obviously some nuances to this game to the point were I "don't know what I don't know...."

Those types of players aren't elites...those are simply assholes. Don't put too much stock in players like that - there is a difference between constructive criticism and straight up insults - never listen to the insult, and take constructive criticism with a grain of salt if you don't know the players. Fortunately, the forums have some pretty good players here. I am positive that if you want some help, you only need to ask around here. You and I both share the same datacentre - I'd be more than happy to help you out as best as I can too.

[Frizze]

So now, when I come to a dungeon in the main storyline. I stop there for the night. I go online and try to research the dungeon so maybe, just maybe, I'll not be too much of a burden to these "elites" that have already done it a dozen times and are just looking to speed-run it and rack up experience.
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I wish I could try the dungeon "cold" at least once, I wish I could explore the dungeon and find the hidden secrets, I wish I could socialize with the people I'm meeting in game. Isn't that also part of the game?

I cant give you what i would consider "good" advice for playing bard. I only stuck with it long enough to learn my cross class skills, and then they went and made those no-longer-a-thing anyway. My understanding is that its mostly(all?) managing DoTs, managing buffs, and managing procs. So ill leave any class tips for someone qualified. But general stuff? I can generalize for days! So ill start with this: Most people are going to want to do dungeons fast. The rewards are the same if you finish a dungeon in 15 mins or in 30, so most people(especially those with limited playtime) would rather finish in 15 and fit in a 2nd dungeon(or a raid, or something else) if they can. The fact that it might be there 5th time running the same dungeon this week(and 200th overall) doesnt help. You can alleviate this a bit with good party making. Ill get back to this point in a minute. As for exploring dungeons and looking for secrets, most later-day dungeons could accurately be described as "a corridor you run through until you reach the boss room". They dont have a ton of extra little things to look for. But that doesnt need to stop you from looking. If you arent in a group that wants to go slowly enough, take advantage of exit time. When the last boss is done the group has about 5 mins to exit before the dungeon closes. After you roll on loot, you can hit your return skill(in the teleport menu) to go back to the entrance. You now have almost 5 mins to freely explore and take in the sights. Most modern dungeons dont have a ton of skip-able enemies, so you arent likely to be attacked at all while you look around. And for socializing, most people do this via LS and FC, but you can get chatty dungeon groups too. If you start a run by saying something like "Hello, how is everyone tonight?" or "Im new/havent run this dungeon in a few months, anything i should remember?" you might get nothing but silence in return. But you also might start people talking, and once started some dont stop. Me? I go with the group. If everyone is quietly doing their job then i go about melting enemies and thats that. If theyre chatty, then im chatty too.

But my BIGGEST piece of advice is to learn the party finder. Duty finder is fine for what it is, but party finder would solve some of your problems right away. The PF basically lets you form an open group that other people can join if they want to do the same thing as you. So you could put up a group for the lvl 61 dungeon(im leaving out names to avoid spoilers) and your description could say "First run, dont know what im doing, want to take it slow". The other players see that description, and they can choose to join up with you. When they join you form the group and can chat with them before hitting the que to start the dungeon. You can wait for all 4 party members to join(this can also be used to make 8 and 24 man parties for trials and raids), or you can que before you fill up and get random DF people for any vacant slots(these being random DF people, obviously they wouldnt have seen your group listing and would probly be the "typical" player). Typically PF groups stay up for an hour(you can re-list the party if you still want to), until all slots are filled, or until you unlist yourself. Try this(along with bringing friends of course) the next time you get to a new duty and see if it helps. And of course, feel free to come back and ask if theres something you think you need help with. There are plenty of friendly and helpful people on these boards.

Side note: The next major content patch will probly be in september. It should contain 2 dungeons, 1-2 trials(story and extreme modes), and the next 4 tiers of the Omega raid series(story and savage modes) - along with 8-12 quests advancing the story forward(and crafting recipes, side quests, and assorted other business). If youre 62 today you have a good chance of being caught up 2 months from now. On patch day everyone is running their dungeons/trials/raids cold - guides start to slowly filter in later on in the day but almost no one expects you to have read them(and you can just avoid the people who do). In the past when ive had patch days off of work, spending that morning running around and doing all sorts of things totally blind(with a group all the same) has always been a ton of fun and its how ive met some of my in-game friends. In general, most players are super cool for at least the first week or so after a patch as not everyone gets to new content at the same speed. You could set this as a medium-term goal for yourself as motivation if you want: Be on the front lines for the next set of dungeons/trials/whatever content you enjoy the most. Best of luck!

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

snip

I agree with you on some aspects, and while any healer should just say "pull more" instead of going ahead and doing it themselves since communication is a wonderful thing, tanks should recognize when a healer is non-verbally saying they can handle more. Letting them tank whatever they pull isn't really conductive, slows down the run with a potential wipe and to be quite blunt, won't teach them anything.

The vast majority of tanks in level cap dungeons wall-to-wall outside of 1 or 2 very high damaging pulls (Hell's lid post second boss and the super giant pull post final SB story dungeon's first boss), a healer that can handle wall-to-wall pulls isn't going to bother putting any energy to remember the run where the tank did the whole "you pull it, you tank it" meme when a healer can easily tank these dungeons if a tank is being stubborn (Most fun Fractal hard run ever as a SAM tank <3).

Now a dps pulling without them being in voice chat or having pre-existing notation of the tank's and healers skill level is pretty bad, since that one can easily snowball.

[KisaiTenshi]

I've been a tank main for 4 years now, and I'll say this as a tank: this mentality needs to go away.

The <group> sets the pace, not anyone in particular. The only time a single person should dictate the pace is if the tank or healer are extremely undergeared.

No, the Tank sets the pace, the healer sets the pull size. If the DPS decide to start pulling things, then they're on their own. While we tend to humor players might get excitable and pull things because they tab-target the wrong mob, the tank is not going to drag the crowd to the mob the DPS pulled, nor is the healer going to cast healing on the DPS when the DPS is kiting the mob to avoid taking damage for the same reason. Some mobs you can get away with this if they only cast cone AOE's, but most just keep hammering on you, and a DPS lasts maybe 5 seconds without the tank taking enmity from them. If you DPS and you accidentally pull a mob, bring it to the tank.

That said, I absolutely loathe tanks who sprint ahead. I will *not* sprint to catch up with the tank that does this. A tank that sprints ahead is saying "I don't need a healer."

I get where you're coming from here but while a competent group can make a tank pulling larger a more viable option it is still on the tank to grab new enemies. In my opinion a healer or dps who wants to run ahead is a healer or dps who wants to tank whatever they aggro. I will usually give them one free pass and let them know if they pull ahead of me again they are going to have to tank what they grab.

A baby pull is one group. A big pull is two nearby/consecutive groups. A wall-to-wall pull, it trying to take everything from the entrance to the first boss. This a failure most of the time. If you can burn down everything in 3 minutes (the tank oGCD timer, and also benediction) then by all means try it. But once the oGCD's are spent, you're going to waste at least two minutes doing baby pulls till those reset. That's a risk that is often not rewarded in PUG's, but may be viable with specific players that enjoy doing that.

The main issue with PUG's is that less skillful players will drag down a party, and not because they might be worse, skillfully, but because their only strategy is maximize DPS, rather than minimize taking damage. The amount of people use used to level their other jobs in PotD pretty much ensured this would happen, as there is no penalty to anything but stepping on traps.

[Ameela]

The main issue with PUG's is that less skillful players will drag down a party, and not because they might be worse, skillfully, but because their only strategy is maximize DPS, rather than minimize taking damage.

But maximising DPS IS minimizing incoming damage, since you're making things die faster.

In fact it is absolutely the best strategy as it means the tank uses less cooldowns per pull, meaning they're allowed to do bigger consecutive pulls.