Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[TyrTry]

I'm not advocating toxic language and behavior, but at the same time, I can understand why people would think that advice isn't going to work on someone who has likely avoided doing any kind of research/work into learning their class or gearing their class. This is obviously a player who just doesn't care and very few people want to waste their time explaining something to what is essentially a brick wall.

There can be several ways to communicate. I can understand the frustration from other players, but the first aspect of giving advice shouldn't be ridiculing. This most likely was his/her first tank class based on what I saw, but I did see they were trying. However, we can't expect every player to do research outside FFXIV like we did (just assumption). You don't even have to be "nice" about it; just better than "learn you ****ing job"

[TyrTry]

But how else am I supposed to tell someone that they're losing aggro except like "Hey, you're losing aggro, please use your tank-stance and your [job-specific tank ability]"?

The person I'm thinking of didn't even do that. It was just a bombardment of insults disguised as advice. Unfortunately, no. We can't expect everyone to do their research outside of the game, and I have been witnessed to several tanks in Doma who are lacking in gear, or do not know some of the basic functions of their job. We quickly state that they are bad players and call it a day. I doubt this player was being bad because "they're just bad players." I could see them trying and sadly, failing at holding aggro.

[MoroMurasaki]

The person I'm thinking of didn't even do that. It was just a bombardment of insults disguised as advice. Unfortunately, no. We can't expect everyone to do their research outside of the game, and I have been witnessed to several tanks in Doma who are lacking in gear, or do not know some of the basic functions of their job. We quickly state that they are bad players and call it a day. I doubt this player was being bad because "they're just bad players." I could see them trying and sadly, failing at holding aggro.

I mean not that it's an excuse to berate someone but I don't know how you could see someone trying and failing to hold threat in Doma. If they were trying they would (mostly) be holding threat.

You've got caveats in there like a dps singles targeting during a large pull or a bursty dps/WHM not using threat reductions but for the most part the very basics of holding threat require no external research, only reading tooltips and applying basic logic. You can see which moves have "increased enmity" on them and see which of those potentially effect a group instead of single target.

Basically if a tank isn't holding threat in Doma it is either the fault of their dps for not using enmity management (which the tank could still adjust for to saved said dps, if we are handling tanks with kid gloves dps deserve the same) or just their failure as a tank to not watch threat on the enemy list and remain on top.

I'm sorry, I just don't see the 'research outside the game' thing as a viable excuse. There is the no external research necessary to figure out flash/overpower/unleash big pulls and enmity combo on single targets. It's reading info that's right in the tank's face.

[TyrTry]

I'm sorry, I just don't see the 'research outside the game' thing as a viable excuse. There is the no external research necessary to figure out flash/overpower/unleash big pulls and enmity combo on single targets. It's reading info that's right in the tank's face.

True enough.

I think what I was trying to communicate got lost somewhere down the line somewhere. All I was trying to say was that if you want to give advice, give advice. You don't have to sugar-coat it, just don't be so condescending about it is all I was trying to say. As for the research thing, I didn't mean to use it as an excuse, just that don't expect people to do research outside of FFXIV.

[HyoMinPark]

We can't expect everyone to do their research outside of the game

While I will be the first to say this game is lacking in tools to teach optimal rotations at a higher level, it is not lacking in basic tooltips that describe the function of each job’s skills. While tank stance isn’t necessarily needed for enmity at higher levels of play, if a player is struggling, it would make sense for them to turn on their free “increase outgoing enmity, decrease incoming damage” button. Same for enmity skills—they all say “Additional Effect: increases enmity”. There is no outside research needed; the tooltips are literally right there in-game.

[Maeka]

Maybe some people fail to realize what enmity means? I mean, I doubt you could get to Lv60 and not know what threat/hate/enmity is... but I wouldn't be surprised. IIRC, not even the Smith's questlines talk about that? They just teach you to dump AoE on all the mobs and the NPCs in those couldn't pull threat if they had to.

[HyoMinPark]

Maybe some people fail to realize what enmity means? I mean, I doubt you could get to Lv60 and not know what threat/hate/enmity is... but I wouldn't be surprised. IIRC, not even the Smith's questlines talk about that? They just teach you to dump AoE on all the mobs and the NPCs in those couldn't pull threat if they had to.

I think there is one that talks about using Flash/Overpower/Unleash to increase the amount of enmity you have, and to hold aggro. However, since the HoN is at level 15, there is nothing in there that describes what tank stance is or what it does. However, there is a reference in there to enmity generation with regards to the above three skills. But this is assuming that people do it. I know the MSQ now purposely directs you to the HoN, but I still see a lot of newer sprouts wearing the level 12 subligar/mixture of level 15 gear in the earlier dungeons.

[Enla]

Just want to apologize ahead of time to anyone who encounters me while I'm leveling AST. I haven't touched this class in a year so when shit hits the fan I tend to tunnel vision more than normal, as shown in the Bismark HM I just left where I didn't notice the Healer LB was available a few seconds before I bit it and could have saved the party.

[Maeka]

Just want to apologize ahead of time to anyone who encounters me while I'm leveling AST. I haven't touched this class in a year so when shit hits the fan I tend to tunnel vision more than normal, as shown in the Bismark HM I just left where I didn't notice the Healer LB was available a few seconds before I bit it and could have saved the party.

I had the same problem when I started playing WHM after a month+ hiatus. I played rather terribly, lol.

But, a few runs later, and I got much more comfortable, and I'm fine nowadays. Well, for the most part anyway.

[Driskus]

Bardam's, DRK tank in shire gear, doesn't even turn on Grit or Darkside, then stands there running in small circles while I tank and DPS the mobs down on WHM. I say Grit?, and the tank puts both up, then runs back to the start and sits there silently. Needless to say, I took the penalty right then and there. Not gonna deal with that crap at this point. I've had enough trolls recently to know its not worth my time, plus it was an obvious premade just like 99% of the troll groups I get.