Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[HyoMinPark]

Mainly its how people respond to the advice of getting research...

Only on these boards... is doing research seen as "elitism".

It's only seen as elitism if you expect sprouts to look up guides for dungeons. Guides are only needed for harder content like Extremes, Savage, and Ultimate. They aren't needed for dungeons, and anyone who expects sprouts to use them for 4-mans is being ridiculous.

[Erim-Nelhah]

You know, I'm on the side of the people who are laughing at you folks telling people running 4-mans to "go watch a guide". Frankly, for anything below Savage, watching a guide is not necessary, tho it is helpful for a handful of Level 50 dungeons (Haukke HM being the biggest offender here).

So please don't demand that people watch videos for 4-man content. Quickly explain the mechanics if they're causing problems, and move on. If people don't improve, then kick/abandon/leave.

Finally, wipefests in 4-mans? Unless it was one of the handful of dungeons with a "do this mechanic or die instantly" mechanic, it probably wasn't a pure mechanics problem, so watching a guide wouldn't help much. In these cases it might be a good idea to look at the party and see what really is causing the problem and go from there.

--Erim Nelhah

[SavageCipher]

It's only seen as elitism if you expect sprouts to look up guides for dungeons. Guides are only needed for harder content like Extremes, Savage, and Ultimate. They aren't needed for dungeons, and anyone who expects sprouts to use them for 4-mans is being ridiculous.

They're clearly needed when people on this very topic have posted about beginners who suck at tactic or need help. If anything this very thread is a clear example that people need to do research, regardless of ego or what is deemed "elitist". Always gather information.

[Erim-Nelhah]

They're clearly needed when people on this very topic have posted about beginners who suck at tactic or need help. If anything this very thread is a clear example that people need to do research, regardless of ego or what is deemed "elitist". Always gather information.

Some of that is being new. A Dungeon Guide will not help a THM/BLM who spams his/her blizzard spells, or a player who doesn't use AoEs on big pulls, or other similar problems. Players who don't play their class properly are a much bigger problem than players who don't watch a guide before entering a dungeon for the first time.

--Erim Nelhah

[HyoMinPark]

They're clearly needed when people on this very topic have posted about beginners who suck at tactic or need help. If anything this very thread is a clear example that people need to do research, regardless of ego or what is deemed "elitist". Always gather information.

Then they can ask the other party members for help. They don’t need to look up a guide for Sastasha. The don’t even need to look up a guide for Hell’s Lid. If it’s a rotational problem, they need to either ask for advice on their class/job, or read a class/job guide, not a guide for a 4-man. If it’s just one mechanic that got them, they can ask for clarification from party members, or party members can provide said clarification.

A lot of the tales here are just examples of people not caring, in my opinion. Some are genuinely from new players that don’t know any better, and those people tend to be a lot more receptive towards advice and actually care (usually, but not always). People who don’t care won’t look up guides to get better anyways, so telling them to “read up on tactics” will do jack all. You can’t make people care.

And about ego/elitism, the only one displaying those are people demanding sprouts read guides for 4-man baby dungeons. Because that comes off, to me, as someone who doesn’t want to bother teaching specifics in the duty itself. Some people don’t learn from guides; some people only learn from doing. I can read a guide all day long on V8S or Ultimate, but until I get in there and execute the mechanics, I won’t learn anything about how to do them properly/well.

[RokkuEkkusu]

Was trying to do Shiva on Extreme...dear Zeus did the matchamking system spear me this time. The tanks didn't get the mechanic, even though they "swore they did". Had 2 RDMs who kept dying due to standing in the "fire"(Ice), and the tanks kept getting one shot. Keep in mind this is a lvl 50 raid, with some very simple mechanics. Tried 4 times, 2 of which the dps couldn't burn down the adds, the other two, the tanks were complete morons....if you're wondering why people don't like healing, this a perfect example.

Since most of the current debate started from this quote, I might as well give a few insights.

First off, queuing for EX primals regularly in Duty Finder is generally a bad idea if you want to keep your sanity. Even on easier EX primals like Bismarck EX, and Ravana EX (Garuda EX is bit a of stretch here).

While Shiva EX may not be the hardest EX primal ever, people still must be aware of her mechanics to clear it if they choose to do it synced via regular Duty Finder queue. It is a very tank dependent fight. In the Hard version, pointing the Icebrand cleave at the party is going to knock some people out. The extreme version requires the tank to split the 18000 Icebrand damage with the rest of the party (this might be the mechanic you were referring to if tanks got one-shotted.) Finally, the tank must also keep Shiva faced toward the wall and away from the party before she changes to her bow (Glass Dance is going to come out with the massive aoe range and very high power).

That reminds me, people are still bad at calling out and/or remembering their waymark points for Shiva's "Titan Bomb" circle patterns after Diamond Dust, so don't be surprised if some aoes overlap in regular DF queue pugs. And don't get me started on healers and ranged getting one-shotted by Glass Dance often for not stacking closely behind Shiva. Finally, most healers and ranged still forget to stack close behind Shiva for Avalanche when someone has the blue marker, so someone is bound to be frozen often.

Don't expect DF pugs to remember all what I just mentioned about Shiva EX. 60 minutes might not be enough to cover each aspect of the fight to new people and clear in the same run.

Some players don't heal often, but for reasons that are not related to EX primals. Pressure to keep others alive, pressure to supplement DPS with offensive abilities, and/or attitudes from teammates can lower one's willingness to heal.

[Miste]

You coddle ineptitude, and that's fine, but don't say it like its something righteous or endearing.

I don't coddle ignorance.

If anything this very thread is a clear example that people need to do research, regardless of ego or what is deemed "elitist". Always gather information.

Says the person who got a mechanic wrong and tried to blame the DPS for it and was politely corrected by someone in this very thread and you gave them a salty attitude as a reply instead of asking further questions to clarify or saying thank you to them for explaining how the actual mechanic works.

You coddle your own ignorance.

You seem to be allowed to make mistakes it seems if we go by the WP HM Doom incident. Who are you to say everyone has to watch dungeon video guides otherwise they are in your words "inept" and "ignorant"?

We didn't coddle your ignorance and yet you refused to listen when people tried to inform you politely about your mistake. As soon as someone corrected you about the mechanic you got salty; so you coddle your own ignorance, but not others? A bit hypocritical.

Watching videos or reading mechanics does not mean you will be able to automatically understand or perform said mechanics properly in-game.

You actually ended up a perfect example of this:

Was healing WP on hard, and was doing lovely (I love healing as a Scholar)....got to the end boss who has probably the easiest Doom avoidance mechanic ever (turn away from him when he's casting it).

This is untrue. The Doom the twin boss cast in this very instance isn't a gaze mechanic that can be avoided by looking away; someone random will always get Doom even if everyone look away. The only way to dispel the Doom is the same way to dispel Siren's Charm skill from Pharos Sirius: heal them to full health. You're mistaking it with Doom casted by Angra Mainyu of World of Darkness and while both of them can inflict Doom, they work differently.

Might want to do your research there buddy, it can be avoided by everyone if timed correctly. Plenty of videos on this already...do your research before blindly replying to my posts.

False.

Said mechanic can be dodged by everyone, plenty of youtube vids for you to look through (though knowing forum behavior, you won't). DPS doesn't have a right to get mad, a damage carry should always be quiet.

Interesting.

Simply because I can here is a video of me staying turned around the entire time waiting for doom and it still hits me.

https://youtu.be/9rBDrBi1D-o

I do this twice while never looking at him, hits me both times, for science of course. Although I knew this is how the mechanic worked, but hey might as well post proof.

So, you might wanna drop the salt? Seems you were wrong and you simply didn't want to own up to it.

If you won't even listen to others trying to help you with a mechanic then how can you call others "ignorant" and/or "inept" for not watching dungeon video guides before doing the dungeon?

Dungeon mechanics are generally easy and easy to learn on the fly. Anyone who is a bit of a slow learner and unable to pick it up while playing it directly likely won't learn it from just watching a video either. I mean I've seen players at 70 who are almost fully incapable of dodging even normal floor telegraphed attacks. A video can't teach you to have faster reflexes or faster reaction times just as it won't likely help a slow learner learn at a faster pace than their usual capability.

People are going to die to mechanics sometimes, it just happens. You need to get over it. No one needs to watch dungeon video guides for mechanics or should be expected to do so unless it is for EX, Savage, or Ultimate stuff.

[MoroMurasaki]

Ultimate Savagery

I just cleared my first 'real' Savage fight tonight... I'll never clear anything as Savage as this post is though

[Kallistra]

This season of Keeping Up With the Official Forums has been really outstanding.

[Ametrine]

Holy shit.

They're the same player... I can't freakin believe it.

Did you misunderstand our roasting a few pages ago in your inability to understand your mix up (and insistence that you weren't the one in error) as every player must be pre-informed under all circumstances?

Cuz I recall the issue being your refusal to admit the mistake and move on knowing better after you claimed you laced into an angry DRG after you refused to heal the Doom in WPHM...