Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Nestama]

Being asked to stop spamming Holy amongst a group of mobs in a dungeon sure was something. I firmly said no and suggested that if it bothers them, they could turn party battle effects off. I could have gone a step further and said they could use their AoE's as well (I was the only person using AoE's. SAM and BLM did not AoE), but I had a hunch they queued as a group of friends... though thinking about it, getting kicked would have saved me so much time.

Then I got Pharos Sirius normal in Level 50/60/70 Roulette and everyone ignored the adds. So that was extra nice.
Wanna know what happens when all the eggs are destroyed in the first 10-20 seconds in the Zu fight? A very frustrated healer.

[Kallistra]

So I ran Anyder not that long ago. Made the mistakes of 1. not bringing anyone with me and 2. not going tank (my main role). I got DRG to 80 and I've been neglecting using it due to poor item level. After doing Eden normal for some weekly loot, I had enough gear to be min ilevel for expert roulette. So I decided to go DRG for fun and to get some tomes. So I queue in and it's me, a DRK, a WHM, and some caster (SMN I think? Maybe RDM).

Even though the first set of enemies is paced really slowly, I notice that I'm getting aggro consistently. Tank has their stance on, so I check this tank's gear, they're wearing full i470-480+ and have significantly more HP than everyone (so no broken gear I assume). Things take forever to kill, I assume this is because of my low ilevel and the healer isn't DPSing at all. First boss goes fine, I guess. It was also kind of slow, but the tank held aggro the whole time. After the first boss we kick off with the tank single-pulling. This has me eye rolling a bit, but I'm not very geared and the run is noticeably slow so I brush it off as the tank being cautious. Again, I'm ripping aggro like crazy, but now I'm dying. Actually reaching 0 HP because the healer isn't healing me anymore.

Now I'm frustrated. I'm min ilevel, I shouldn't be ripping aggro off a geared tank and especially not before this caster who was also more geared than me. So the next trash pull I am watching what this tank is doing like a hawk. Then I see what's going on. They aren't AoEing. At all. And neither is the caster.

So I ask, "Why no AoE?"

Tank: "I'm not pulling big. I don't need to AoE."

Me: "It would help with the aggro, if it wasn't on me it would be on the healer if you don't aggro them with an AoE move."

Healer: "MY aggro is fine."

Tank: "No one else is having a problem."

Caster: "Maybe you should learn to single target."

After that exchange and seeing that they were all from the same server, I dipped. I have no idea how some people hit level 80 when they do stuff like this.

[Reinha]

I have no idea how some people hit level 80 when they do stuff like this.

They do everything with their equally unskilled friends. Anyone who queues alone gets enough community feedback on their way to 80 to at least be able to do basics like holding aggro.

[BigHoffie]

Correct, and basic competence would be the ability to pull mobs in a reasonable fashion and the dps not running to pull entire groups back to the party. Clearly, you are one of the few who like to pull and drive on. This is fine, but be more considerate to your fellow dungeoners. "I can stay or leave," could be considered a "cop-out" of the assumed social contract in dungeon running that is prevalent within these very forum boards. Tanks can pull entire dungeons or go at a reasonable pace, which was what I was certainly doing in that context. I wasn't sitting there with my lodestone pulled out and being rude to others. There are still human beings behind these characters, and you certainly don't take that into context. We all know dungeon runs can be good or bad depending on what happens within. There are new players, skilled players, or players wanting it fast and crude wiping along the way (which is what you're assuming everyone at lvl 80 to be). I know 80s who still don't have rings anywhere near their level, and they need help sometimes. I certainly don't fall into this category, but I also don't fall into the category of "screw the world," I wanna run the dungeon and be gone. You yourself said, "if the group wants to pull one pack at a time, I can stay or leave." Then, in this case, the DRG should have left instead of just pulling the next set thinking this was part of the social contract inherent to MMORPGS. If it has changed, and it needs to be assumed we all just run into dungeons like mad animals....then, certainly, some people need to go run the cute little knowledge runs out in Aleport. I typically defer to the healer who sits next to me to set my pace because if he can't heal, the party wipes. But at the end of the day, and by the picture you've set forth in your posts, you're most likely another internet troll assuming this is how the game works.

This seems to have really struck a nerve, considering you've called me a troll and a "mad animal", and I'm not sure why. I absolutely agree that the DRG should not have done what they did in your scenario. Were it me I would have attempted to VTK you or left. That's what I meant by "stay or leave" I don't see how leaving if I'm not having fun (this is a video game, remember?) is a cop-out. But you don't seem interested in actually discussing, more in attacking people who don't agree with your way of "assuming how the game works", so you take care.

[Jimmymagic]

As a tank main pull big or go home. "PERIOD". Dancing around humanity and manipulating others words doesn't change you are in the wrong. Why? Because you didn't communicate and level 80 content isn't for taking it easy on experts. You should have been vote kicked or just left. You want full control over pace and party then get your fc mates to go stop wasting other peoples time.

Hears an idea drink your coffee and then play the game. Im not co signing your BS for any reason. Learn to tank or play a different job.

Now to thread, im healing on AV as WHM with my FC mate who is leveling an alt. Our leader is tanking of which he s not comfortable with yet. So going in I know the potential of wiping. First area tank pulls about 4 mobs but stands in goldbite and I did my best to keep him up but he dies the dps then kite the mobs until I can rez and heal everyone we save wipe. Get to first boss and no one wants to eat fruit I manage to keep everyone alive to about 5 stack and then we wipe. I tell tank to eat fruit when boss starts to cast aoe or stun it, He does we move on, small pulls so this of course get under my skin but "HE COMMUNICATED AT THE BEGINNING THAT HE WAS PULLING SMALL AMOUNT OF MOBS". So we trudge along a few deaths but no other wipes. We managed to get through because we spoke before starting and all agreed on pace. This is how MMORPG group content is suppose to work. No Assumptions and no surprises. Yet another reason why I prefer when I can do dungeons with FC instead of PUGing it up. For those who don't FC or not enough playes in FC do this get a Link shell or form a fellowship.

[Neoom]

So PF is always full of ''fun'' surprises... Sometimes I wish I was the person who checks the fflogs before we hop into Ruby EX. I have had the pleasure to ''heal'' with a SCH who's best dps is under 2k the whole trial and wont use anything else than succor. I wont shame anyone on their logs play as you want, but it is a nuisance on Ex when all I want is fast kill in a farm party not have one holding it back with their non dps way of playing :/ I guess I can't complain since people can play how they want, but damn seeing the phase 2 enrage for the missing dps feels bad...
Now I need to lay down and think if I need a dragon anymore

[AnonymousBard]

As a Tank main I'll weigh in on the ongoing Big vs Small pulls.

I will have to side with Celbrean on this one. It proper etiquette to go with the flow of the Tank unless they are acting like a fool or are not equipped to handle the situation. If they are small pulling, go with the flow. Big pulls, again go with the flow. People will say small pulls are "pet peeves" or "annoying" and whatnot. But... So? Im sorry you decided you have to run 100 dungeons to grind out an armour glam or level, guess what, so do I. Big pulls saving you an extra 5 minutes really isnt worth the headache of hoping the healer doesnt mess up or hoping the dps is up to snuff in pugs. And honestly, pugs is the name of the game. If you wanna run that optimized, find a static or invite some friends.

Now, I'll also say that proper dungeon etiquette also runs the other way too. If the majority of the party (party, not community, I'll address this later) wants big pulls, and you as a tank are capable of it along with the healer, you should definitely oblige them. Nothing wrong with a little excitement. I think big pulls are more fun for all classes because it gives you an opportunity to go all out with your skills. The way I normally run as a tank is small pulls because I run with randoms majority of the time, and I don't know what they are capable of. I'll normally ask the Healer if they want small or big pulls or see if the healer says they can handle/want big pulls.

Now with the whole "community" thing. Thats a delicate conversation as either side is really just making up numbers. Through personal experience, I find that the only demographic that even attempts big pulls (outside of underleveled noobs and those with little knowledge of the tank system) are the more hardcore players. And even then, its really only maxed out hardcore players. Few hardcore players even try it on new content. And then again, even among that percent of players, its not 100% of them. Like Celbrean, sometimes I like a chill dungeon after E6. Maybe Im enjoying the first run of some optional content. Does anybody ever savor things anymore? Not everything has to be 100000000000000000% optimized. I'm not a fan of players like that, nor am I a fan of playing like that. Im more than capable of it, and I've been in the competitive scene before in other gaming genres. But I enjoy gaming for many aspects, and its a major hobby in my life (picked up my first controller when i was like 3) and when you start getting into that over-competitive mindset, it turns things sour and makes it start feeling like a job. The gaming community has this mindset right now that if you dont play things EXACTLY how they want you to, or you're not optimized, you dont deserve to enjoy the game (thats not to say its okay to jerk around and ruin other peoples experience). And as a life-long gamer, that goes against everything gaming was ever supposed to represent for people. And I just cant get behind that.

/Rant

[Liam_Harper]

As a tank main pull big or go home.

Sure. I went home ages ago. I never tank in pug dungeons. I'm not even slow, I just refuse to have the pace dictated by a random dps regardless of my cd's being up or not.

Meanwhile dps complain of long queues. It's exactly what they asked for. They told us to keep away if we aren't happy with their rules.

[Rilifane]

As a tank main pull big or go home. "PERIOD". Dancing around humanity and manipulating others words doesn't change you are in the wrong. Why? Because you didn't communicate and level 80 content isn't for taking it easy on experts. You should have been vote kicked or just left. You want full control over pace and party then get your fc mates to go stop wasting other peoples time.

Hears an idea drink your coffee and then play the game. Im not co signing your BS for any reason. Learn to tank or play a different job.

Tanks can pull however they want as long as the group is okay with it and can keep up. Enforcing your playstyle on others when you are in the minority is not how it should be done.
If a group can't handle big pulls for whatever reason (atrocious dps, weak healer, inexperienced players) small pulls are fine. If a group could easily handle big pulls and you're the only one being against it despite being able to handle it, you either leave/ ask for a kick, adjust or try to find a middleground.
Tanks don't dictate the pace but neither do dps or healers. It's still team effort and a party should try to find common ground. In experts it's common practice to pull big right from the start because even with sort of weak dps you can breeze through. In leveling content it's usually the opposite and you pull smaller unless the others ask for bigger pulls.
But everyone is able to communicate their preference.

[Raltar]

I'll weigh in on this as well: Expert dungeons should always, 100% of the time, be wall to wall pulls. If you have the item level to queue for an expert dungeon, you have the means to tank/DPS/heal wall to wall pulls. Period. You might not have the skill and if you don't, you shouldn't be queuing for expert dungeons and if you want to run them, run them with a trust since you can do that now and go at your own pace. You even get the rewards(aside from the roulette bonus) all to your self. This is why I always run expert with my brother because then we have all of the power. A DPS not AoEing? Ask them why they aren't AoEing. If they say nothing and continue to single target? Kick. I never have to worry about DPS running ahead to pull since I pull wall to wall. You won't have to worry about DPSing pulling ahead if you just pull wall to wall. If you don't feel comfortable doing so, don't waste other people's time. Run with a trust.

As for leveling dungeons, that's a different ballgame. Because you have people with varying gear levels and commitment levels. Ultimately, it is still an under geared person's fault they can't do their jobs properly, but it is also partially Square-Enix's fault as well for not putting a higher item level requirement on dungeons. Which is why storyline should never be blocked by a dungeon. Dungeons should be completely optional for better gear as you level or for leveling alt jobs. That could potentially get the "I'm here for the storyline and it's fine if I just spam one ability over and over again" people out of dungeons. Even still, unless someone is intentially trolling, I never initiate a vote kick on someone in a leveling dungeon. I will always offer to offer tips on how to improve. But in an expert dungeon? You should know better at that level and I have 0 patience for bad players there.