Bring back interesting trash packs in savage!

[Selli]

The lack of trash has been around for all endgame raiding.

t1: Had lots of trash, but 90% of parties just had a tank pull and die so they could be skipped.
t2: No trash.
t3: Trampolines. That is all.
t4: Similar to A2S. No trash pulls, but trash for a "boss"
t5: No trash.

t6: 2 trash pulls.
t7: Annoying trash pulls pugs complained about.
t8: Minor trash, skip rest if you know how to not push doors too early.
t9: No trash.

t10: Skipable trash.
t11: See t7.
t12: No trash.
t13: No trash.

Now we have Alexander.

A1: Faust
A1S: Faust.
A2: See t7 and t11. "Trash" for boss as well.
A2S: "Trash" for boss.
A3: As a healer, I hate this trash the most. Freaken poisons on everyone. >:c
A3S: No trash.
A4: No trash.
A4S: No trash.

Savage "trash" (basically Faust) does not save your progress the way Coil did. If you left A1S without clearing, you have to fight Faust again, meaning any trash in the other turns would have been more annoying than anything if they existed. I'm glad Savage doesn't have extra trash. You're doing Savage to fight harder bosses and get 210 gear, not deal with Goblins that hit harder for no reason.

[Nomad-phx]

Trash would only work in savage if they re-introduce shortcuts, but I don't think that would coincide with the forced party composition this cyce(mechanics that make raids REQUIRE 2 tanks/2 healers) as every group would single tank trash for more dps then switch back for real boss.

[rappa]

Bosses have enought gear/dps check to put trash mobs before the encounter.

The only reason tu put trash mob is for increase the time wasted during raids an probably an useful loot. FFXIV trash mob haven't loot so...My answer is not thanks.

[Malzian]

Bosses have enought gear/dps check to put trash mobs before the encounter.

The only reason tu put trash mob is for increase the time wasted during raids an probably an useful loot. FFXIV trash mob haven't loot so...My answer is not thanks.

But here's the thing, as I said before, you can use that trash to move those checks -off- of the bosses. The effect of this is twofold, 1) boss fights immediately become less grueling, 2) the whole of the raid becomes more challenging and worthwhile. The gear at the end becomes a result of beating the whole raid, not just the boss. And if done right, the raid won't be any longer than it currently is.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Correct me if I'm wrong as I was not playing MMOs back then, but didn't the term "Raid" come about because in Everquest you gathered a large group (~72) players in order to make a quick attack on the various targets within and then get out of (i.e. "Raid") a dangerous location?

[Malzian]

Correct me if I'm wrong as I was not playing MMOs back then, but didn't the term "Raid" come about because in Everquest you gathered a large group (~72) players in order to make a quick attack on the various targets within and then get out of (i.e. "Raid") a dangerous location?

Yes, but those were unorganized and didn't really have a format. You just got in and did whatever and the goal was set by the players and the reward was whatever you got out of it. WoW introduced raiding as an organized attack on a specific target with specific goals and rewards. It took something that was a thing people were doing randomly on their own and made it an official activity. Of course, when you are 'raiding' a target, you don't just rush in and attack that target without opposition. Usually it's a battle all the way to the target (of difficulty appropriate to the final battle) and then you beat the target and get out.

[Kuwagami]

I wouldn't call the trash packs "interesting" in FFxiv's raiding.

Well, I suppose the crystal tower's packs were interesting enough, but coil, and now alexander's trash are just boring "deeps that" thingies.

[Priya]

I'm okay with trash if it drops something (like BoEs in WoW raids). Trash that's only there to be annoying and add extra time is stupid, however.

FFXIV raids don't feel like raids, but it's not because they lack interesting trash, it's because they're broken down into so many zones. "Raiding" 1 room doesn't exactly feel very grandiose. CT was the closest thing to a legit raid this game has, and even that was an illusion (see all this tower space you CAN'T visit?). Void Ark looks like it will try to emulate CT. BCoB is a close second, but the rooms still feel a bit small. I get Alex is inside a tiny robot, but I wish they would've made the inside larger. Naxx was inside a tiny building, but it didn't feel that way.

It's a shame the less viable raids (CT) feel more epic than the legit challenging ones we spend so much time in.