I just...don't care anymore.

[Sollux]

A fully-pentamelded i170 crafter will probably need fewer upgrades come 3.2 to get to the new (presumably) 3-star stuff. However, if they continue to gate materials the way they've done so far, being ahead on crafting, at the least, probably won't hold too much value.

It may not hold much value when 3.2 hits (Which is likely at MINIMUM 4 months away) but its value will lie in the time leading up to 3.2 and how smart the Crafter is in making gil during that time. Material gating has been strict from the start with most Gatherers choosing to get their i180 sets first rather than spend their Scrips on Favors, however now that we're 2 months in and most are completing their sets there have been more mats popping up on the boards at cheaper prices than before, and I wouldn't be surprised if this trend repeats for 3.2. As far as getting materials directly after release, if the Crafter has invested in the i170 sets and was smart with making gil in the previous months I can see them having a MUCH easier time both obtaining the materials for the new recipes as well as crafting them.

[Alahra]

However, they do look good. I've been selling pieces of this and that for glamour purposes. Not many people can afford it though, due to reasons you stated. I believe this issue will be solved once the mats are more available.

Some of them are decent for glamour, yeah. Others of them are rather disappointing old gear, though (while Kirimu is a great set, it's not exactly a good fit for MNK and NIN just from animations alone--serious dissonance there), and BRD/MCH got a set they can *already wear* at level 50.

As for the increased availability of mats...I don't see that really happening until 3.2--at least not to a significant degree--unless they add the materials to either Law tomestones or the new sky/airship content. And if it does take until 3.2, crafters will have waited an entire raid cycle to readily be able to craft stuff they've been *able* to craft for months.

[Sollux]

Even if that is the case, its no skin off your back. That means when they figure out they'll need the 700 gp later on, they'll be a potential buyer for the gear (which will be marked up due to demand :3). It's a win-win situation.

It would be nice if this were the case, but I can't see SE making it impossible to farm the new nodes without 700 GP (Gathering has historically had a relatively low barrier to entry as well as a low ceiling) and if there is an optimal rotation that requires 700 GP most Gatherers I know of would just prefer to be able to Gather the item and don't really care about optimization.

It is my belief that they put up so much roadblocks on the road of going omni because we will reap the most benefit when the new stuff(s) come.

SE will stop me from omni-crafting when they pry the tools from my cold dead body in my HQ Astral Lumber Coffin.

[Alahra]

SE will stop me from omni-crafting when they pry the tools from my cold dead body in my HQ Astral Lumber Coffin.

They didn't do a very good job of discouraging omnicrafting with 3.0 anyway, to be honest. Individual DoH classes depend far more on other DoH mats than they ever have before, and Specialization abilities don't compare to the power of the old suite of level 50 abilities well at all. I never liked being an omnicrafter, so I was looking forward to Specialization, but they didn't really make it worthwhile.

[Porkchop]

It would be nice if this were the case, but I can't see SE making it impossible to farm the new nodes without 700 GP (Gathering has historically had a relatively low barrier to entry as well as a low ceiling) and if there is an optimal rotation that requires 700 GP most Gatherers I know of would just prefer to be able to Gather the item and don't really care about optimization.

The only thing that we need now is a 700gp rotation with some long term benefit (either for collectables or more yield/HQ chance on stuff). Once the theorycrafters figure it out and come out with a popular rotation, everyone'd want 700gp. Of course, this is mostly speculation. But I'm definetely putting my eggs on this basket.
Whether people believe what i'm saying or not is not my business. To be honest its better if people don't , less competition for me lol.

[Sollux]

They didn't do a very good job of discouraging omnicrafting with 3.0 anyway, to be honest. Individual DoH classes depend far more on other DoH mats than they ever have before, and Specialization abilities don't compare to the power of the old suite of level 50 abilities well at all. I never liked being an omnicrafter, so I was looking forward to Specialization, but they didn't really make it worthwhile.

Unfortunately I think that a lot of people loved Crafting BECAUSE they could omni-craft, and their methods of discouraging omni-crafting have actually worked so well that it has discouraged a lot of people from Crafting in general. Their intent (In my opinion) with 3.0 was to discourage omni-crafting and encourage us to rely on other people which would in turn revitalize the market and keep it from stagnating because most people can craft everything themselves. This doesn't mean omni-crafting is impossible, and it will certainly get easier as time goes by, but the length of the grind means that the market will be active much longer than it was previously.

The main problem is the fact that Combat classes have very little incentive to spend gil on anything from Crafting/Gathering which has removed a HUGE chunk of potential gil from the market, which leaves much less incentive to Craft or Gather, which in turn means less mats on the market, which means higher prices on the mats that ARE on the market, which means most Crafters are Gathering their mats themselves, which means less people buying said mats, which makes the market stagnant.

As for Specialist skills, I may get some flak for saying this but I think they're exactly where they need to be. They were never MEANT to be as powerful as their respective lvl 50 counterparts, otherwise their would be no real reason to level any other Crafting class. They're there as a stepping stone to be able to craft Endgame recipes but still have an incentive to level the other classes.

[Sollux]

The only thing that we need now is a 700gp rotation with some long term benefit (either for collectables or more yield/HQ chance on stuff). Once the theorycrafters figure it out and come out with a popular rotation, everyone'd want 700gp. Of course, this is mostly speculation.

I actually agree with you on this one, though I think it will be a long time before anyone seriously starts looking into this/shares their rotation. The more people know a good rotation the less profit there is for the ones who found it themselves.

[Alahra]

Their intent (In my opinion) with 3.0 was to discourage omni-crafting and encourage us to rely on other people which would in turn revitalize the market and keep it from stagnating because most people can craft everything themselves.

I think that was their intent, yes. On the surface I don't have much issue with the intent, but the implementation has been awful. Since most folks are used to being able to omnicraft (and there are a lot of crafters that focus solely on crafting), they naturally leveled everything to 60 anyway, and there are still a lot of incentives to do so, and essentially no incentives to specialize at this point in time.

The scarcity of materials means that the simplest way to craft ones own i170 sets, for instance, is to omnicraft, so that you can make all of the components. With how scarce things are, relying on other crafters just simply doesn't work that well, as you need ways to mitigate costs as much as possible to make the whole enterprise worth it.

[Buckles]

Discourage omni-crafting... I am currently making Birch Rods for my scrip turn in (my bonus today) and it requires 8 items to make and only 3 are from carpenter. 3 are from goldsmith, 1 from leather worker and 1 from alchemy. So only 3/8 of the items needed are from the craft designed to make it. If they wanted to get rid of omni-crafting why do I have even more reliance on my other 60s now than ever.

God I just don't see why red scrips weren't just fluffy-RP-named items that required ONLY material-relevant stuff for the craft making it, like a nice wood carved figurine carpenter that takes 3 birch lumber. Make it medium hard to make and boom, no one needs wood, leather, ore, glue, growth formulas for every bloody item under the sun.

[Sollux]

If they wanted to get rid of omni-crafting why do I have even more reliance on my other 60s now than ever.

I believe they mainly wanted to discourage omni-crafting for the high-end items so they aren't popular in the first month and then dead the next 5 because everyone can craft everything at that point.