But...I...I don't wanna DPS, I'm a healer...

[Welsper59]

It's funny how that Yoshi-P interview has become some kind of memetic mutation that took a statement very specifically pertaining to how DPS expectations were calculated for raid scenarios and got blown up into what the devs intend for the entire game.

That being said, I do believe that the devs have purposefully avoided taking a hardline stance on the more general issue. They understandably don't want to alienate customers who are far behind the gameplay curve by sending them the harsh message of "Get off your ass, stop watching Netflix, and hit a mob if you have nothing better to do."

Because when you actually stop to think about it, there is literally no content outside of a raid situation that one can fathom to be deemed designed intentionally with healer DPS in mind for party content. Can you think of any example of this? Seriously, it's not hard to come to a conclusion of a design choice when it's literally impossible to prove otherwise about the matter from an overall view. There's no fight whatsoever that requires, as a mandatory, that healers DPS outside of raids that we choose to do earlier than expected, which as you are obviously aware of, was not designed with that intent. There is zero reason why it'd be otherwise, besides a personal one for a need to reach for a different conclusion of the matter lol. All signs point to the direction that healer DPS is not included into a necessary mechanic of a fight. The only one would be for raid clears, which... well, we all know is proven false by that one line. Do they really need to spell out something so obvious that we see it proven every day that healer DPS is not needed for content when cleared as intended?

[AskaRay]

If FFXIV had a class like that, I'd be in heaven. As it stands however, I'm just not comfortable DPSing at this point (At least with my WHM which I'm leveling to 34 for Stone Skin).

To be fair, it's a different feel for every job...
for instance if I go into Cleric Stance on my WHM, literally everyone is dead in like three seconds, while on my SCH I can sometimes be in Cleric Stance a whole run and never exit it.

[Cynfael]

Because when you actually stop to think about it, there is literally no content outside of a raid situation that one can fathom to be deemed designed intentionally with healer DPS in mind for party content. Can you think of any example of this? Seriously, it's not hard to come to a conclusion of a design choice when it's literally impossible to prove otherwise about the matter from an overall view. There's no fight whatsoever that requires, as a mandatory, that healers DPS outside of raids that we choose to do earlier than expected, which as you are obviously aware of, was not designed with that intent. There is zero reason why it'd be otherwise, besides a personal one for a need to reach for a different conclusion of the matter lol. All signs point to the direction that healer DPS is not included into a necessary mechanic of a fight. The only one would be for raid clears, which... well, we all know is proven false by that one line. Do they really need to spell out something so obvious that we see it proven every day that healer DPS is not needed for content when cleared as intended?

What you aren't mentioning is the other side of the coin: it's so much easier for most healers to DPS outside of end-game raid content since the windows are large, obvious, and frequent. You literally have nothing better to do than to help DPS if you are a good healer with even an average party. It should be fairly obvious that the healer DPS discussion is most relevant to raid scenarios since the only question in regards to the rest of the content is "does the player know what to do, and are they doing it?" Questions of intention or design are irrelevant there.

I'm not the one reaching to draw conclusions here; I'm simply referring to what's actually been discussed by official sources.

[Welsper59]

What you aren't mentioning is the other side of the coin: it's so much easier for most healers to DPS outside of end-game raid content since the windows are large, obvious, and frequent. You literally have nothing better to do than to help DPS if you are a good healer with even an average party. It should be fairly obvious that the healer DPS discussion is most relevant to raid scenarios since the only question in regards to the rest of the content is "does the player know what to do, and are they doing it?" Questions of intention or design are irrelevant there.

I'm not the one reaching to draw conclusions here; I'm simply referring to what's actually been discussed by official sources.

Does that really need to be said though? I mean, we all know this already. The OP already knew this. If a human being has a properly functional brain, you can put it together that you can do more, so they would know this too (eventually) lol. The design mention is incredibly relevant here for this context of the subject. The OP is uncomfortable having to DPS because of the fact that a lot of people have an obscured belief that it is INTENDED (see mandatory) for healers to always DPS alongside using heals. For something to be intentional, it had to have been designed with that in mind. That claim that healers are intended to DPS is 100% false. So this is completely relevant for this topic.

There is zero content ever created in this game with the design that a healer must DPS, at least when done as the devs intended. Yoshi-P also mentions that healers should DPS if you need that extra output, but it is never a part of their raid design. So raids are covered on that. Now, as I said previously, look at all other content in the game. Think of a single group activity that is, by design, mandatory for healers to DPS to be successful. If a player wants to DPS as a healer, then please do. It helps a lot. But strictly looking at it from the role and how content is created, it's not a requirement (yet). That was the point for the OP on the matter, because he didn't want to DPS as a healer, which is fine as long as your group activity doesn't require it to be successful (which would be doing something NOT as intended).

[Cynfael]

Does that really need to be said though? I mean, we all know this already. The OP already knew this. If a human being has a properly functional brain, you can put it together that you can do more, so they would know this too (eventually) lol. The design mention is incredibly relevant here for this context of the subject. The OP is uncomfortable having to DPS because of the fact that a lot of people have an obscured belief that it is INTENDED (see mandatory) for healers to always DPS alongside using heals. For something to be intentional, it had to have been designed with that in mind. That claim that healers are intended to DPS is 100% false. So this is completely relevant for this topic.

There is zero content ever created in this game with the design that a healer must DPS, at least when done as the devs intended. Yoshi-P also mentions that healers should DPS if you need that extra output, but it is never a part of their raid design. So raids are covered on that. Now, as I said previously, look at all other content in the game. Think of a single group activity that is, by design, mandatory for healers to DPS to be successful. If a player wants to DPS as a healer, then please do. It helps a lot. But strictly looking at it from the role and how content is created, it's not a requirement (yet). That was the point for the OP on the matter, because he didn't want to DPS as a healer, which is fine as long as your group activity doesn't require it to be successful (which would be doing something NOT as intended).

I see what you are saying, but I personally don't find words like "intended" and "mandatory" to be relevant here. What matters to this discussion is the "meta," if you will.

The devs could release a statement tomorrow revealing their grand design that any sort of behavior be practiced or abstained from, but it wouldn't do a thing to change the way that players interpret game mechanics.

Also, you can do a lot of horrible and incompetent things and still complete 99% of the content in this game. I really wouldn't use completion as the bar against which to measure whether or not a behavior is "mandatory" when playing decently isn't itself remotely mandatory in most situations.

[Welsper59]

I see what you are saying, but I personally don't find words like "intended" and "mandatory" to be relevant here. What matters to this discussion is the "meta," if you will.

The devs could release a statement tomorrow revealing their grand design that any sort of behavior be practiced or abstained from, but it wouldn't do a thing to change the way that players interpret game mechanics.

Also, you can do a lot of horrible and incompetent things and still complete 99% of the content in this game. I really wouldn't use completion as the bar against which to measure whether or not a behavior is "mandatory" when playing decently isn't itself remotely mandatory in most situations.

That is very very true. That's something that would really help if they did reveal such a thing lol, but as you said, we're going to do things the way we want to as long as it's possible. The OP, however, just essentially wanted a clear cut and simple answer. Intention and mandate are relevant terms for this subject to get the point across, at least to me. We're always in favor of letting people play the way they want, as it'd be wrong for someone to push their own agenda unnecessarily unto another. The meta for this subject is a 3rd variable agenda among the player base. We're essentially forcing that onto someone that doesn't feel it needed, when that person is clearly right to feel that way. If you've cleared the content, you've played the game. Even if you were carried, you've played the game in your own way. It's when that becomes a reasonable problem, as in this lack of action by a player is making it impossible to do something or causing strife in the group, that things need to change somewhere in that group of people, be it the player lacking something or the person complaining. I mean, if someone keeps complaining about a 4man dungeon taking a few minutes longer because the healer doesn't DPS much/at all, I'd be more inclined to just tell the complainer to GTFO rather than the healer.

Playing up to the standards that we players have for each other (which is entirely subjective) is not something someone should feel obligated to be concerned about in any situation. If they want to be successful, they'll adjust as needed for the group/activity. If they don't do that, they simply won't get far. The other players are not obligated or forced to keep this player who refuses to adjust (or maybe just can't). This is nothing new to the MMORPG genre. Play how you want and understand the limitations related to it.

[Alex_Lenderson]

I'll admit that part of the problem for me right now is my laptop is out of service and I'm playing on a PS3. I'm sure when I get back to PC gaming it'll be easier, but for now a large part is me still getting used to the lengthy switch of skillbars, and occasionally having a brain fart moment and forgetting what button to press to highlight my CS. (Yes I'm aware that's stupid, but I had a major brain fart tonight.)


I had a horrible run of Haukke Manor earlier this evening where I went OOM and a DPS died (didn't have Hi-Ether on bar) and while I kept everyone else alive I majorly panicked, then at the end of the dungeon the other DPS and Tank used emotes to disapprove before entering the portal immediately. I'm not gonna lie, this is a game, and this is the internet where people can say what they want without repercussion, but it was really really disheartening to see someone give me a questioning look, and a disapproving look, especially as a newbie still learning.

Why? They are strangers. This is the internet. If you aren't prepared to be insulted and vilified at some point in either games or on-line you need to rethink some things. It WILL happen.

[PriestAlseid]

Why? They are strangers. This is the internet. If you aren't prepared to be insulted and vilified at some point in either games or on-line you need to rethink some things. It WILL happen.

Because I have humans emotions and sometimes I have bad days. I'm sorry that's inconvenient and apparently unacceptable, but hey, it happens. It just made me feel like crap, to have 2 out of the 3 other people react like that when I took a chance on healing as my WHM and that's what I got. I'm well aware of the Internet and how people act on it, I'm also aware I'm allowed to have bad days and experiences and see them as bad.

[PriestAlseid]

Things.

It's more like, I took a role that's traditionally focused on keeping the team alive, if I wanted to do damage I'd have rolled a damage class, that's basically what I mean.

There's nothing philosophical or moral about it, it's a game, it doesn't exist. I just know what I enjoy doing and usually, damage isn't it, at all. Obviously when you solo you're doing damage but you're not competing with anyone but yourself.

And the extra baggage is I've been playing for 45 days and I'm not used to the system yet, and maybe that's why you don't get it, because you're not entirely new and learning a whole new game, it's not a big deal for you because you've been doing it, but I haven't. I don't know anything about this game other than, "Do story quests to level, do FATES, level secondary classes with Levequests, do dungeons" I'm still learning, and figuring out. I spend a good chunk of time googling what I'm actually meant to be doing.

[Liselsia]

You have to really keep in mind the type of players that go out of their way to use forums. They tend to be endgame oriented tryhard looking for a place to vent.

Outside of high-endgame content there is little expectation for a Healer to dps. I mean if healer is having a really easy time healing its "nice" for them to throw some dps spells. But no normal content outside of raid remotely requires Healer to contribute even a single bit of dps.

Most ranting you see are from bitter endgamers you got pissed off by low-dps healers in endgame so they taking out on people who will never play at that level in the first place.