Raider to Non-Raider: an exhibition on thoughts and misconceptions

[Molic]

I think people also need to realize raiders arent a small percentage of the population.. There is probably more or less than 1 million active accounts in the game, and during the first week savage came out SE reported a little over 250,000 people tried it, thats around 25% of the total active population of the game in the first week. Now with some guesstimating im guessing now at least 400,000+- people have given it a try or were interested in savage, which is about 40%. That really isn't a minority. Heck 250,000 people really shouldnt be considered a minority either.

[Ashkendor]

The moment a community starts gathering data to gauge players based on sent data from 3rd party app to differentiate between good and bad performance of a player and use this to form groups is where things get messed up. Sadly these activities are mostly used by raiders. I won't post any link to that kind of stuff. Raiders are discriminating other players by these means and so dehumanizing the game in favor of raw numbers. I do not think raiders and non-raiders can cooperate in this game due to such behavior. Even on trivial stuff like the latest dungeon or the current primal, there's someone that can't deal with that. When I play the game someone rages because one person can't keep up or is new to an event. There has to be a change in the community to "humanize" raiders and it has to come from the raiders. Either acknowledge that there's another kind of player base that can't keep up because it's on the nature of how people approach the game or avoid those players completely.

And this, folks, is a prime example of the misconceptions that are mentioned in the thread title. Thank you for the demonstration.

There are raiders in this game. There are assholes in this game. Not all assholes are raiders, and not all raiders are assholes.

[whiskeybravo]

There is probably more or less than 1 million active accounts in the game, and during the first week savage came out SE reported a little over 250,000 people tried it, thats around 25% of the total active population of the game in the first week. .

I think there's a difference between 250k people trying it on release and 250k per week clearing it every week since. According to the census, which admittedly is already a month old, less than 6% of the player base cleared A1S. (referencing to your +/- 1 mil players). I don't believe "trying it" makes you a raider. You should at least have to complete something to earn that title xD

[Sandpark]

And this, folks, is a prime example of the misconceptions that are mentioned in the thread title. Thank you for the demonstration.

There are raiders in this game. There are assholes in this game. Not all assholes are raiders, and not all raiders are assholes.

You A team america fan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs

[zosia]

I think there's a difference between 250k people trying it on release and 250k per week clearing it every week since. According to the census, which admittedly is already a month old, less than 6% of the player base cleared A1S. (referencing to your +/- 1 mil players). I don't believe "trying it" makes you a raider. You should at least have to complete something to earn that title xD

It still shows a high interest in actual raid content. Imagine if we had a proper raid full of bosses starting from an a4n difficulty ending with an a3s difficulty spanned over 6-8 bosses. Close to half the player base would be engaged in raiding.

This should be what SE is aiming for, not creating a raid environment where we have normal mode, which is easier than the crystal tower, and savage, where only less than 10% of the player base can get past the 1st boss. There should be a smooth difficulty gradient that is accessible by almost everyone but ends with a fight about as hard as a3s.

We can keep the story mode, but the actual raid tier would be what I described above.

[Renault]

Honestly, I'd just prefer if there were 3 modes.

Savage as it is currently, though hopefully not tuned as tightly (Thinking more like A3S being the hardest. On A4S now and it's just ludicrous.) - have it reward a mount, title, and dyeable high ilvl gear.

"Hard" Mode - A mid core raid in the same realm of difficulty as FCOB. Unique gear that is undyeable, though higher level than current tome gear

"Story" Mode - story mode, as it is. Like Praetorium and the other story modes. This is just a walk in the park faceroll like it is now. Rewards no gear, though maybe a single piece for first time completion or something. I also think this should be released AFTER the other modes, not vice versa as we saw with Alexander.

[Alahra]

Honestly, I'd just prefer if there were 3 modes.
-snip-
"Hard" Mode - A mid core raid in the same realm of difficulty as FCOB. Unique gear that is undyeable, though higher level than current tome gear

I was just thinking about this in another thread. I'd almost prefer for a hypothetical Hard mode to drop i200 gear (the same as whatever the locked tomestones are), but make it upgradable to i210 the same way that tome gear is upgradable (but don't put the upgrade items in Hard itself). Savage would then keep the i210 gear, and it should definitely have unique titles and cosmetic rewards as well. Obviously for a system like this, Hard and Savage would need to share a lockout.

[Renault]

Obviously for a system like this, Hard and Savage would need to share a lockout.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think that's the best idea. Ultimately I think hard/savage would share the same loot system as the current savage, which is gear drops + dungeon tokens you can accrue and spend if you're unlucky on drops. I believe hard and savage should have their own separate lockouts, so that those who need the gear boost from hard to go into savage don't have to wait a week in attempts. (Imagine a scenario where your team has cleared hard mode and wants to progress in savage, but doesn't yet have their gear from hardmode.)

[Alahra]

I believe hard and savage should have their own separate lockouts

One of the other problems with the current setup has been burnout for those players that *can* do Savage, though. They farmed Normal to get gear to get ready for Savage, and they're already tired of the fights. In terms of just, player satisfaction, I think the safest thing would be for Savage and a hypothetical Hard mode to share a lockout, if only to prevent the mentality that you *have* to do both every week.

[Renault]

One of the other problems with the current setup has been burnout for those players that *can* do Savage, though. They farmed Normal to get gear to get ready for Savage, and they're already tired of the fights. In terms of just, player satisfaction, I think the safest thing would be for Savage and a hypothetical Hard mode to share a lockout, if only to prevent the mentality that you *have* to do both every week.

WoW tried this very thing and it was a hot mess. I can only say "trust me" on this one, as someone who experienced it first hand. An alternative is have the ilvl of savage gear be so powerful that players can skip the hard mode tier of the next raid and go straight into savage again.