How would you feel if they scrapped the current "classes"?

[Jennestia]

I personally would like to see some sort of traditional classes be implemented.

Hows this of an idea, at r50 you get a a few different paths to go down. Lets take Conjurer at r50. When I hit that I would like to be either a whm or a blm not both. When you take your path you get special bonuses to either healing or nuking. This can be implemented on all classes not just the mages.

Having us "graduate" to other classes seems vintage FF to me. I remember playing the older FFs and when I reached a certain lvl with my whm I became a wizard. Idk seems to me like something to work towards.

The only kink is the fact you can crossclass skills which pretty much kills any uniqueness even with applied bonuses. You can have x,y,z abilities exclusive to : Wizard, but there has to be a lot more than can be used on any class or it kills the point of the current armory system.

They would have to redo even the "base" classes at that point in time which means it would be better to just remake the classes and throw in new ones which I believe was mentioned would happen when the balance of current ones is reached, since Conjurer for example is basically FFIII/XI's Scholar which is an Geomancy enhanced Red Mage (XI) for all intents and purposes.

[darkstarpoet1]

i agree with kimarhi on this one. most people who left the game are not fond of this system and i am included on this. there are still ways to go about farming since you can farm when your at the highest rank or farm with friends that also need the items if they are too hard to fight alone. they need to fix the quality of the classes i think. i would much rather they make the game that appeals to a broader version of ff fans than to keep the game in such a way that still prevents past ff fans from enjoying this game as well

i'm sorry if you do not like it then leave and go back to xi since that seems to be the game everyone wants to turn this into. the people that left this game are not leaving because you can make a class any way you want it. they are leaving because this game has a severe lack of content and any reasonable story to get you involved in. if you don't believe me ask almost anyone with high level characters and they will tell you they are bored of grinding, leves, crafting on a ever repeating cycle with nothing else to do in game. i'll bet you that 90% at least will tell you that. the ones that don't will tell you the game is ok and they are just waiting on the new content to be added before they get back into the game heavily.

once again i gave a list of abilities that would be useful i did not say use all the abilities yourself so just get off your high horse.

[Kimahri]

Well I thank you Alexzander & Jennestia for throwing your opinions out there. Man I was starting to feel like the lone shark right now with my beliefs. You two share a much related belief that I have and that is the current system seems flawed because you're only being excludes from a very few abilities. (Most of which don't really help that class anyway....Besides maybe that Fast Cast on Conjurer I believe?)

As you said, Alexzander, it seems strange to me as well that you're able to pull Tier 2 Cure's, weaponskills, and buffs from other jobs to put on Pugilist. As Jennestia said it kind of kills the whole point of classes being exclusive. This goes along the lines of what I said in previous posts about it will come down to leveling the class solely to strip it of it's ability.

And I didn't forget about you, Poppa. This is going exactly along the lines of what I've stated in previous posts on this thread. For me, though, the advancement of being the basic Gladiator to that of a Dark Knight started at r25. I basically wanted the standard classes to be able to branch out in a form of an advanced class to make them even more unique from FFXI's system. The difference between a Gladiator choosing a Paladin or Dark Knight was basically the concept of XI, but I'm sure SE can figure out ways to make them unique and different from XI.

Thank you three for posting your opinions and I'm thankful you did. Hope there is some more on both sides that we can discuss and have a hot cup of tea over. lol

[Kimahri]

i'm sorry if you do not like it then leave and go back to xi since that seems to be the game everyone wants to turn this into. the people that left this game are not leaving because you can make a class any way you want it. they are leaving because this game has a severe lack of content and any reasonable story to get you involved in. if you don't believe me ask almost anyone with high level characters and they will tell you they are bored of grinding, leves, crafting on a ever repeating cycle with nothing else to do in game. i'll bet you that 90% at least will tell you that. the ones that don't will tell you the game is ok and they are just waiting on the new content to be added before they get back into the game heavily.

once again i gave a list of abilities that would be useful i did not say use all the abilities yourself so just get off your high horse.

Whoa. Wait a minute. Don't bash this dude and tell him to leave simply because of his opinion. I can see people leaving the game based on the armoury system as a lack of content in the classes. Right now you're basically acting snoddy because people feel the same. I didn't jump in your face, Darkstar, when me and you finally started talking this out.....Sadly I can't speak for myself when it came to Gifthorse so if you'll please excuse me on that guy. Right now I want everyone happy, and the only way we're going to do this is if we find a middle ground for us all to stand.

I just read Jennestia's last post about Poppa's proposal and I've seen many posts regarding the one I have that's similar to Poppa's. Even though she has an opinion, I'm not telling her to step off....Looking at it now with the way she put it....It sort of changes my mind right now about even my implementation of a conversion of the basic class into the advanced class. Simply because Her, I, and Alexzander all three feel that the access to all these abilities despite a select few really defeats the purpose of the system making a class feel unique.

[Dromox]

The only kink is the fact you can crossclass skills which pretty much kills any uniqueness even with applied bonuses. You can have x,y,z abilities exclusive to : Wizard, but there has to be a lot more than can be used on any class or it kills the point of the current armory system.

They would have to redo even the "base" classes at that point in time which means it would be better to just remake the classes and throw in new ones which I believe was mentioned would happen when the balance of current ones is reached, since Conjurer for example is basically FFIII/XI's Scholar which is an Geomancy enhanced Red Mage (XI) for all intents and purposes.

I agree, if they do an "advanced" classes system they would really have to regulate those abilities to that specific class (ala Speedsurge) otherwise they would be alittle redundant.

[darkstarpoet1]

Whoa. Wait a minute. Don't bash this dude and tell him to leave simply because of his opinion. I can see people leaving the game based on the armoury system as a lack of content in the classes. Right now you're basically acting snoddy because people feel the same. I didn't jump in your face, Darkstar, when me and you finally started talking this out.....Sadly I can't speak for myself when it came to Gifthorse so if you'll please excuse me on that guy. Right now I want everyone happy, and the only way we're going to do this is if we find a middle ground for us all to stand.

I just read Jennestia's last post about Poppa's proposal and I've seen many posts regarding the one I have that's similar to Poppa's. Even though she has an opinion, I'm not telling her to step off....Looking at it now with the way she put it....It sort of changes my mind right now about even my implementation of a conversion of the basic class into the advanced class. Simply because Her, I, and Alexzander all three feel that the access to all these abilities despite a select few really defeats the purpose of the system making a class feel unique.

i did not come at him because he disagrees with how he feels the game is. i came back at him because he called me out personally by name bashing the way i play my game. i play my game the way the system is setup. and you are right you and i disagree, but we did it while tryin to look at the views the other has and that i do respect.

now if you want to go by not very final fantasyish why don't you go to the most popular final fantasy and that was VII you had the ability to use any ability you had and people loved that about the game. i wouldn't mind if we could use all abilities from all classes since in the end it is still your character. my character learned this ability and i want to use it. if you want to knock down the abilities usefulness such as cure is lower on mele classes since they dun use a wand that would be fine with me, but if someone uses magic and has magic then they should be able to use magic.

i do agree with you guys in the sense that classes need to be more unique and as i said earlier that would be handled by addiing class exclusive abilities through the guilds for each class. that would allow you to add any number of abilities that would make that class unique which is what you guys are wanting. i understand that and am not arguing that fact. the only thing i said is i loved being able to use the abilities that i have EARNED the right to use. the game used being able to do what you want with your character as one of it's selling points and it is the reason i got it.

[Kimahri]

Thank you, Dromax. It would be a little weird.

Now with you four here, I would like to revisit some things I said regarding these classes. As I said I'm in total agreeance with Jennestia & Alexzander about the simple fact that these abilities are too freely used. I'm not going too much into detail, because I don't want to offend DarkStar by bringing up old news.

Now basically what we have though is a pick and choose clash of abilities for classes to mesh together with very little abilities set as class specific. I pointed out that instead of this I would much rather see a Marauder retain all weaponskills(Unless of course they do away with a Marauder only wielding a Great Axe. In that case only specific one's should end up being class specific.) and most abilities regarding TP, but I can see giving up Bloodbath, Defender, Disorient, and Warmonger.(This ability I can only see useful for a Gladiator.)

With this way I said I could really see a clearly more defined class, and hell it's not perfect so it's open for debate. What I want to know is what you think as well?

P.S. Also just now came to me, but wouldn't having classes a little more specific help make most endgame fighting right now have a little more challenge to them? Just wondering what you'd think.

[Kimahri]

i did not come at him because he disagrees with how he feels the game is. i came back at him because he called me out personally by name bashing the way i play my game. i play my game the way the system is setup. and you are right you and i disagree, but we did it while tryin to look at the views the other has and that i do respect.

now if you want to go by not very final fantasyish why don't you go to the most popular final fantasy and that was VII you had the ability to use any ability you had and people loved that about the game. i wouldn't mind if we could use all abilities from all classes since in the end it is still your character. my character learned this ability and i want to use it. if you want to knock down the abilities usefulness such as cure is lower on mele classes since they dun use a wand that would be fine with me, but if someone uses magic and has magic then they should be able to use magic.

i do agree with you guys in the sense that classes need to be more unique and as i said earlier that would be handled by addiing class exclusive abilities through the guilds for each class. that would allow you to add any number of abilities that would make that class unique which is what you guys are wanting. i understand that and am not arguing that fact. the only thing i said is i loved being able to use the abilities that i have EARNED the right to use. the game used being able to do what you want with your character as one of it's selling points and it is the reason i got it.

Totally agree with you that FF7 is the best one out there in terms of storyline game. Now here's where I defer, but don't worry I see something there in your post I'll get back to that I like. FF7 had these same abilities, yes, but you need to remember that it was just you playing. Not a large group of people. While it worked in a 1-player RPG ten years ago, doesn't mean it'll work the same in an MMO.

If you turned Cloud into a bad*** striker that could also slaughter foes with his Bolt 3, then that was your choice on the platform RPG. It had no others to compete with in terms of other players that you could play with. What I'm trying to say is that if everyone levels Cloud like you did, then this game would totally resent itself in it's attempt to create a variety of unique qualities. If everyone could use become a heavy striker and also slaughter with Tier 3 spells, wouldn't that seem as a crutch in the long run of this game? I guess what I'm trying to say again is that too much freedom of choice leads to the best possible choices that people tend to gimmick.

Now where I do agree with you is that they need to make some better damn abilities that you can obtain through guild marks. Quite frankly as I said I only see one good one and that's the Conjurer's Fast Cast. And I also hope you agree with me that weaponskills should also be used exclusively to that certain class and/or weapon.

Edit: Also I want you to also think about this....A way people would gimmick others in FFXI was to copy off their gear. Now this would also be a concern with FFXIV on top of, not everyone, but most people copying off abilities and then gear.

[darkstarpoet1]

Thank you, Dromax. It would be a little weird.

Now with you four here, I would like to revisit some things I said regarding these classes. As I said I'm in total agreeance with Jennestia & Alexzander about the simple fact that these abilities are too freely used. I'm not going too much into detail, because I don't want to offend DarkStar by bringing up old news.

Now basically what we have though is a pick and choose clash of abilities for classes to mesh together with very little abilities set as class specific. I pointed out that instead of this I would much rather see a Marauder retain all weaponskills(Unless of course they do away with a Marauder only wielding a Great Axe. In that case only specific one's should end up being class specific.) and most abilities regarding TP, but I can see giving up Bloodbath, Defender, Disorient, and Warmonger.(This ability I can only see useful for a Gladiator.)

With this way I said I could really see a clearly more defined class, and hell it's not perfect so it's open for debate. What I want to know is what you think as well?

P.S. Also just now came to me, but wouldn't having classes a little more specific help make most endgame fighting right now have a little more challenge to them? Just wondering what you'd think.

i understand your class uniqueness argument and it is very justified. i am more into character uniqueness. my character is not setup like any other character in the game and that's why i like my character. if i was required to use only say my pug abilities there would be alot of pugs with the same build i have.

i completely agree we need class uniqueness. i just feel as though since they were allowed to be used at this point they should not be removed as being able to be used. if you want to say once the cap expands every ability after is unique to each class that would be fine. if you want to say all abilities from the guild can only be used on that class is fine. both options would give the classes that unique stuff others do not have.

we have the same idea that the classes at this point are pretty comparable, but we also have to realize this game is still in its infancy. i think se will have more stuff upcoming to give each class its own unique feel to it which is what i expect. i just don't like the idea of hundreds of hours to level classes to get the unique character i want would wind up being wasted hundreds of hours.

like i said i do not take offense to what you disagree with because we have spoken back and forth with civility, but the guy coming in calling my name and bashing a list of abilities that i was just giving an example of some skills that would help in a certain situation would be helpful struck me wrong. i was just sayin i would help anyone that asked me a question and gave an example of the type of stuff that would help. just so ya know i said all those II tier abilities sayin those are helpful because those are the only 3 abilities that can break those horns. i was saying you needed a cure and an ability to break them and if you kept all weapon skills that one class only then like farming horns of any sort would be mrd/arc/pug only and all other classes would have to depend on them not having the option to do it themselves.

[Kimahri]

i understand your class uniqueness argument and it is very justified. i am more into character uniqueness. my character is not setup like any other character in the game and that's why i like my character. if i was required to use only say my pug abilities there would be alot of pugs with the same build i have.

i completely agree we need class uniqueness. i just feel as though since they were allowed to be used at this point they should not be removed as being able to be used. if you want to say once the cap expands every ability after is unique to each class that would be fine. if you want to say all abilities from the guild can only be used on that class is fine. both options would give the classes that unique stuff others do not have.

we have the same idea that the classes at this point are pretty comparable, but we also have to realize this game is still in its infancy. i think se will have more stuff upcoming to give each class its own unique feel to it which is what i expect. i just don't like the idea of hundreds of hours to level classes to get the unique character i want would wind up being wasted hundreds of hours.

like i said i do not take offense to what you disagree with because we have spoken back and forth with civility, but the guy coming in calling my name and bashing a list of abilities that i was just giving an example of some skills that would help in a certain situation would be helpful struck me wrong. i was just sayin i would help anyone that asked me a question and gave an example of the type of stuff that would help. just so ya know i said all those II tier abilities sayin those are helpful because those are the only 3 abilities that can break those horns. i was saying you needed a cure and an ability to break them and if you kept all weapon skills that one class only then like farming horns of any sort would be mrd/arc/pug only and all other classes would have to depend on them not having the option to do it themselves.

Just want to say before you read this long thread that I'm sorry it was so long. lol

First of all, in regards to your part over the horns. I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Haha! But that's not saying SE won't step in and fix a minor problem such as that if things changed.

Now when you're talking about how the freedom to choose abilities over the actions used in FFXI, they can both be setup on the same stage. I'm starting to see your side of it, but I want to show you a little more of my side of it. Yes, you're correct. The XI system made the chance to choose certain abilities rather low as regards to which sub to use, but for me it still mattered because each job was used as a unique role to itself. A Warrior couldn't copy White Mage as effectly to keep itself alive past a certain level mob, and the consequence to subbing White Mage on a Warrior limited the abilities of the White Mage and MP in total.

To further that topic I'm on we can go completely opposite and give White Mage the subjob of Warrior. Now granted the White Mage doesn't have all the abilities of the Warrior job, it still gave some up to a certain extent to help the class.....In whichever way you could imagine.....Haha!

Now that is basically what I would like to see also implemented. I would not care that I can pick abilities up to, let's say R25, from certain other classes. I'll make a short based list on possiblities at the end of this post.

In your defense you want to be able to pull abilities from every job you level, except the one's already restricted to class specific. Now even though this could lead to a huge variety of different abilities, you will only pick a select few that makes the class most powerful. What I see is that a lot of classes will never see the light of day after being leveled for an ability. And that would make me furious that I had to level the class just for one or two. As stated above I'm sure a way we can remedy this is if we implement a sort of subjob feature into the class system, but instead you can choose from maybe 2 or more other classes which abilities. And also let's not forget that for the sake of this post R20-25 is the limit from abilities you can pull.

So basically here is what we could do to help this class be more defined while still appealing to masses.

I. Class restrictions on abilities R21 or R26 and up to class specific only. (Also I think they're going to redesign these abilities because quite frankly I think Tier 2 weaponskills as just plain stupid.)

II. Able to pick abilities from 2 or more other classes below the rank of either 20 or 25. (Depending on what cap you want.)

III. Able to obtain more class specific abilities through the guild mark system. (Also hope they change these around, too.)

IV. Weaponskills should stay in their respective classes. (If they implement a system where the class is no longer tied to the weapon, then basically what they did so well with in XI's weapon skill system.)

What do you think so far? It might seem more XI on your side, but it actually melds them both into a good harmony. Especially with the way you can pick abilities from more than just one. Let me know what you think.