How would you feel if they scrapped the current "classes"?

[Lamhirh]

I would personally be very unhappy, as I love current system. They should twaek it to make classes more specialised ( like bonus to shield for gladiators, less stamina usage for pugilist, enhance the steadfeast for maruder, Extra effectivenes for spe,lls when used by magic job ( like +20% ). But if they remove this awesome system and instead fit everyuone into predefined classes i would personally be very sad.

[gifthorse]

I think the main problem with the classes all feeling the same has to do with their attempt at balance. As you can freely add any ability from any class pretty much, it does not leave a lot of room for unique abilities as they need to maintain the balance. If they all had some great unique skills and abilities then everyone would level everything to add those abilities to there "unique" character, which the irony is that it wouldn't be unique because everyone would do it ^^

Yeah or they could just empower/nerf said abilities depending on your specialisation...

[gifthorse]

My problem with the "freedom" the current system allows is it allows thing like this to happen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDk94b3oZbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KazOD98mqr4

Yeah that's right a THM soloing NM's that are designed for 15 people to fight, now I don't know about you but I consider that to be over powered. I am sure the player has a lot of skill to be able to pull it off I don't doubt that for a second but this is the kind of stuff that will be common place with the current system and this is only the beginning. I already see people trying to copy his setup and as more and more over powered setup's are discovered then you will have less and less freedom with making your "unique" class as people will start expecting you to have this setup if you play that class, especially for endgame.

This is the problem when roles aren't defined and restrictions aren't put in place.

As we keep saying, the armory system and role specialisations aren't mutually exclusive. You can have both uniqueness of roles and variety with some adjustments to the armory system.

Nobody's buying your argument just because of one example where THMs are overpowered. The overpowered THM skill, i think it's called emulate, allows you to copy the elemental resistances of your opponent. Dodore has very high elemental resistances and hence gives anyone using that ability a very unfair advantage against the dodore. It's a case of an overpowered ability, not of a flaw in the armory system.

[Vaymathias]

Also......Just to throw it out there....Am I the only one who currently doesn't like the ability sheets for leveling? I find it stupid how you get another ability every two levels, and half the time it's the same weaponskill or ability with a II or something on the end of it.......How does that make progression more unique when I have the same damn weaponskill just slightly better? That's like having Tachi: Enpi IV in place of Tachi: Kasha on Samurai.....Just completely stupid.

It seems to me like it's over saturated. Too many abilities with too little diversity between the similar ones. It doesn't help that each melee's basic attack all use the same amount of stamina for roughly the same amount of damage.

At least in FFXI, DRK's base attack was slow but hit hard, while PLD with a sword and shield hit fast but with weak hits, wasn't much, but it felt different, even if it was just a little.

[Kimahri]

I was running through some articles, and I happened to come across one on finalfantasyxivguide.org that was posted August 9th, 2010. Here is an exerpt out of a portion of the article on the Armoury System that I thought would help with this discussion. I will also underline some of the key points in the article.

"In Final Fantasy XIV, the Armoury System is how players and characters will be able to change their current class or role. This change will effect how the player plays his or her character in the coming fights ahead. Tank classes will be there to soak up damage and protect the weaker members of the party, healers will be on hand to maintain the tank’s strength as well as any other party members in need of aid or resurrection, and the damage dealing members of the party are in place to take out all enemies as quickly as possible before they can overcome the party. Groups will need to work together each managing the tasks of their specific role. In Final Fantasy 14, the Armoury System will allow players to be able to change their role as the need arises to make forming parties easier and allowing players to round out different aspects of their characters."

Do I need to point out more? All I have to say over this exerpt is..........Where in the game do I find, "Groups will need to work together each managing the tasks of their specific role."???? What is specific? Seems to me that concept was thrown out of the Armoury System. What is the specific role of Maurader as a Damage Dealer when it's damage is the same as that of Gladiator, Conjurer, and Thaumaturge? What is specific about DoM when I can maintain my own strength with cures, protect, and shock spikes on Pugilist?

Anyone else have anything to point out?

[darkstarpoet1]

to me i love being able to level multiple classes to get the skills i want off each to make a character the way i want it. as far as class uniqueness why not just do it like luminous spire for example is bought by guild marks and is only available for gladiator. by adding more skills/abilities that are earned by achieving guild marks in that class and only allowed to be used as that class would improve the uniqueness of each class as it stands. if you buy an ability for a thm through the thm guild and only the thm can use that ability then the thm will have unique abilities and people would have a reason to use thm. i do not like the idea of scrapping the current system because people put in the time to level the characters the way they want to play them, but i would love to see more abilities that can only be used by a certain class.

[gifthorse]

I was running through some articles, and I happened to come across one on finalfantasyxivguide.org that was posted August 9th, 2010. Here is an exerpt out of a portion of the article on the Armoury System that I thought would help with this discussion. I will also underline some of the key points in the article.

"In Final Fantasy XIV, the Armoury System is how players and characters will be able to change their current class or role. This change will effect how the player plays his or her character in the coming fights ahead. Tank classes will be there to soak up damage and protect the weaker members of the party, healers will be on hand to maintain the tank’s strength as well as any other party members in need of aid or resurrection, and the damage dealing members of the party are in place to take out all enemies as quickly as possible before they can overcome the party. Groups will need to work together each managing the tasks of their specific role. In Final Fantasy 14, the Armoury System will allow players to be able to change their role as the need arises to make forming parties easier and allowing players to round out different aspects of their characters."

Do I need to point out more? All I have to say over this exerpt is..........Where in the game do I find, "Groups will need to work together each managing the tasks of their specific role."???? What is specific? Seems to me that concept was thrown out of the Armoury System. What is the specific role of Maurader as a Damage Dealer when it's damage is the same as that of Gladiator, Conjurer, and Thaumaturge? What is specific about DoM when I can maintain my own strength with cures, protect, and shock spikes on Pugilist?

Anyone else have anything to point out?

Nowhere in that article does it say classes have specific roles. I'm not sure that article adds anything new to this discussion actually.

I think the classes of the armory system are very unspecific for the very reason that they are there to allow us, as players, to take on specific roles within their boundaries.

In practice, this falls short of the ideal, so SE needs to step in and help encourage specialisations. Which is something they are considering doing. The two options they are considering which will help make use of the armory system are either:

A. making advanced classes

or

B. Helping make specialisations within the existing classes

[Kimahri]

Nowhere in that article does it say classes have specific roles. I'm not sure that article adds anything new to this discussion actually.

Are you serious, Gifthorse? Did you just skip the text highlighted in bold? Let me revisit that text and provide a clue to you.

"Groups will need to work together each managing the tasks of THEIR specific role."

Now that I put that in it's own space, did you read it now? How hard is this topic? Are you being willfully stupid right now? I'm getting so sick of unintellegent people, like you, that try and throw away common logic and supplement in their own. You're as dumb as the day is long.

Tell me, Gifthorse. How in the world are they going to solve the problems of every class being overpowered by throwing advanced jobs into the mix? How are they going to solve it by throwing in more abilities? THEY JUST CAN'T! They can only solve this by limiting the abilities already in place to make the classes more SPECIFIC to THEIR roles!

Why would they already bring in more advanced classes when it took years to come out with those in the RoZ expansion in FFXI? Why? Can you tell me why? No? I thought so. It would be a rather bad decision on SE's part to already assign new advanced jobs to a game that hasn't even spread it's wings in terms of developing a solid background for the basic classes.

The only thing I see in your post is that I can agree with is that they need to make the classes more specific. I'm not using the world special. Stupid word. There should be NO reason......NO REASON......That a class can do ANYTHING they want......That defeats the whole purpose of this system! In FFXIII when Snow used Sentinel he could not attack while defending! He had counterattack, but he had to lower his defense to do it! And get hit first! That's what I like to call a consequence....Which I see nothing of in FFXIV when I choose Pugilist to attack, cure, debuff, buff me, and cast shock spikes on myself.....Is that a consequence? NO!

Do you know the reason why FFXI lasted 9 years? 9 years! Is because it was a great game with great mechanics! A Job was SPECIFIC from other jobs! If I wanted to be a tank, I could be a Gladiator or a Ninja. If I wanted to be a Healer, I could pick White Mage or Scholar. If I wanted to enhance the party, I could be a Bard.....The list goes on! Why in the hell would you want to wrap all that into a single class and call it better? It's not! It takes the fun out of the game!

I'm done. Your posts from here on out are just going to be ignored from me. Quite frankly I don't even think you have a brain. Because only an idiot would read a post that clearly defined their intentions of how the Armoury System was meant to be and say that's not what they meant. Gifthorse.......Don't post here anymore......You have absolutely nothing.....And I'm not joking.....Nothing to say that makes any great defense for your case.

[gifthorse]

Are you serious, Gifthorse? Did you just skip the text highlighted in bold? Let me revisit that text and provide a clue to you.

"Groups will need to work together each managing the tasks of THEIR specific role."

Now that I put that in it's own space, did you read it now? How hard is this topic? Are you being willfully stupid right now? I'm getting so sick of unintellegent people, like you, that try and throw away common logic and supplement in their own. You're as dumb as the day is long.

Please don't take offense to this, because I can see you're already very upset, but it doesn't say anything about classes having specific roles in that sentence you quoted and bolded. What I see, when reading that sentence is that groups of players - all of which have individually specified roles - can work together.

Tell me, Gifthorse. How in the world are they going to solve the problems of every class being overpowered by throwing advanced jobs into the mix? How are they going to solve it by throwing in more abilities? THEY JUST CAN'T! They can only solve this by limiting the abilities already in place to make the classes more SPECIFIC to THEIR roles!

I think one of the ways they will try to make specific roles is by doing a buff/nerf type of situation. The classes we have at the moment are just a means to an end. They are the basic building blocks for players to create their own roles. The issue we are seeing is that many of the players aren't developing roles since there is no way for them to do that.

One way of encouraging people to make specific roles out of the current building blocks is a specialisation system. This is one of the two options SE is considering. I'll explain how I foresee this being implementing:

By opting to specialise in a certain area of expertise: Damage, healing, Tanking, Nuking, players could take on a defined role. To make these specialisations feasible, SE could buff one of your stats while nerfing another. To give you an example, one which i have used before, is if SE includes a BLM as a specialisation within the armory system.

If they add specialisations, characters could choose one of several to give themselves a more specific role in combat. While they would still have access to all the classes' skills, depending on which specialisation they chose, some skills would be more effective and potent than others.

Earlier I mentioned a player who chooses BLM as a specialisation, this player could find that his offensive spells do more damage, but his enfeebling and healing magics do much less. This gives him more incentive to play that role during battle, while not confining him to it.

Why would they already bring in more advanced classes when it took years to come out with those in the RoZ expansion in FFXI? Why? Can you tell me why? No? I thought so. It would be a rather bad decision on SE's part to already assign new advanced jobs to a game that hasn't even spread it's wings in terms of developing a solid background for the basic classes.

There are no jobs in FFXIV at the moment... only classes, so they aren't trying to bring in new classes. I think what they're trying to do is help players choose specific roles within the classes we have available. Classes are left very vague at the moment, any player can do anything, so SE is looking at reinforcing the roles with additional boosts, depending on whichever one a player chooses.

The only thing I see in your post is that I can agree with is that they need to make the classes more specific. I'm not using the world special. Stupid word. There should be NO reason......NO REASON......That a class can do ANYTHING they want......That defeats the whole purpose of this system! In FFXIII when Snow used Sentinel he could not attack while defending! He had counterattack, but he had to lower his defense to do it! And get hit first!

I am not saying they should make the classes more specific, not at all. I am saying, that within the classes, there is room for a variety of different roles. SE just needs to encourage those with some gameplay mechanics.

Do you know the reason why FFXI lasted 9 years? 9 years! Is because it was a great game with great mechanics! A Job was SPECIFIC from other jobs! If I wanted to be a tank, I could be a Gladiator or a Ninja. If I wanted to be a Healer, I could pick White Mage or Scholar. If I wanted to enhance the party, I could be a Bard.....The list goes on! Why in the hell would you want to wrap all that into a single class and call it better? It's not! It takes the fun out of the game!

Yeah, I think SE has realised the mistake they made with the armory system. Although players have so many options, there is no way for players to really create defined roles. Obviously in a group, there are healers and damage dealers and tanks, but it isn't as emphatic as they want it to be at the moment. So they are probably going to help facilitate more diversity by bringing back the typical FF jobs/roles. They won't replace the current classes, but they will probably function as a specialisation or an extension of the current classes.

I'm done. Your posts from here on out are just going to be ignored from me. Quite frankly I don't even think you have a brain. Because only an idiot would read a post that clearly defined their intentions of how the Armoury System was meant to be and say that's not what they meant. Gifthorse.......Don't post here anymore......You have absolutely nothing.....And I'm not joking.....Nothing to say that makes any great defense for your case.

Good riddance. All you ever do is ignore my posts anyway, even when you're responding to them. Nothing I say ever gets through to you. I spend half my time on this forum reiterating points I've already made which you simply choose to ignore.

[darkstarpoet1]

gifthorse i completely agree with you. i don't believe tearing down the classes as they are now is the way that we need to go. i believe the correct route is to find a way to advance what they have now to improve the system and make the classes more unique, but still allowing the players to customize their pug or thm or w/e other class they are playing. i, for one, do not want a class that is premade for me. i want to level multiple classes to make my character the way i want my character. if someone wants a thm and wants nothing else besides thm skills that is their choice and they are welcome to do so, but it's not my right to tell them they can't anymore than it is theirs to tell me i have to only level one class and use its abilities.

i still say the easiest thing to do is add some new skills and abilities that are obtained through the guilds and can only be used by the class you got it from their marks. this allows a thm to have abilities that nobody else can get or use. this makes class uniqueness that everyone is craving along with giving my character the ability to be built and customized the way i wish to do it.