How would you feel if they scrapped the current "classes"?

[gifthorse]

For me it's not even necessarily scrapping the current classes.. For me it's about tightening down on the class customizability.. It's too vast that it doesn't really matter outside of weapon what class you play. I've seen Thaumaturges tank, I've seen Gladiator's DD.. I think it's too vast.. I could be wrong, but I'm a FFXI-hugger.. I'd settle instantly for FFXI-2 so I think I'm biased

A mage tank would be so cool. It could cast protective walls and position itself in front of players to protect them, like in the R46 cutscene.

Anyways, I don't think the issue is customizability, it's more that the roles people opt to play need to be officialised by SE in some way. I think that's why they are bringing back classic class names. One reason is because people call for class uniqueness, but it's also a way for us to cement our roles more firmly.

[Lamhirh]

Well thing s you hadnt seen thaumture tnk and glad DD, you saw a tanking magic user, and a DDing sword/shield user.Or even more a tanking ddisciple of Maging , and sword using disciple of War DDing. the classes are more like weapon skills. and role is what we want to do with them. I agree the system needs to be tweaked. there are lots of good ideas ( a roles, equipable in same way as classes, so for example if you equipp class maruder, and role tank, you will be tanking axe user, and so on) class bonuses to certain roles ( magic clases would have 20% bonus to magic efficiency, etc) or tying classic jbs to clothing, so like you equip certain armor and certain weapon to make combo, or many other ideas. But point is this is FFXIV not FFXI-2. Current system is amazing step forward to ditch the boring old DnD class chains. However there is a big group of people who never wereable to build something new with lego, all they could do was build things that were in the set manual. For those people having this system is crtainly confusing and overhelming. So there is cure: Presets. Either user defined, and predefined.

[darkstarpoet1]

For me it's not even necessarily scrapping the current classes.. For me it's about tightening down on the class customizability.. It's too vast that it doesn't really matter outside of weapon what class you play. I've seen Thaumaturges tank, I've seen Gladiator's DD.. I think it's too vast.. I could be wrong, but I'm a FFXI-hugger.. I'd settle instantly for FFXI-2 so I think I'm biased

i say it's an easy fix. give more items in the guilds such as luminous spire for gladiator that you can only get by using gladiator guild marks in the gladiator guild and can only be used by the gladiator. it would give each class more uniqueness by allowing people to purchase higher level abilities only their main class can use. this allows people to pend the hrs leveling another class for its abilities to stick on their main/favorite class without taking away from the uniqueness of the class that basic learned ability came from. can you really tell me if i learned to cast cure on myself that if i grabbed a sword i would forget how to do it even though i still have magic in me? if i learned a special punch and i had a bow in my hand i would still have the ability to punch something. now if it is something from the guild itself they all want you in "their guild only" so then it would mean those abilities should only be used on those classes.

[Kimahri]

i have to agree with lamhirh and gifthorse here. in our nm battles we usually have multiple thm and con in the party but they have their own distinct role the same as the gla's. we usually have a thm for debuffs a thm for nuking in br's and one healing. that's one class but it has 3 different roles. we have a con healing and usually another thm that is buffing the party and healing in between. those are roles they play from within their classes. my role is a 50 pug that deals damage and since i have resurrect because i have leveled my thm up also i resurrect my allies that are on the front line since it's easier to take me out of the battle for a few seconds to get my fallen ally up than it is to bring a mage close enough to die. that is my role in the party. my class is pug but my role is different in the battle. we also have one gladiator that is main tank so has abilities set to tank while the other uses incap moves. that is just a few things i see when i see roles in the party. just because you have a class does not mean you will always fill the same role inside the party.

i am not trying to start an argument, but just sayin that just because we are a certain class does not make our roles set in a given situation.

Now I see what you're saying. I'm not going to start an argument with you, just show you a point or two. What you're saying about what a THM does with nuking and debuffing I have absolutely no problem about it what so ever. Since it's only one of two mage classes, I don't mind a limit to the cure. Sacrifice is basically all Thaumaturge needs. I don't see why it would also need a Conjurer's cure if it has one of it's own? Things along this line I'm in total support for.

What I don't agree with is the fact that people can pick and choose from all the abilities to settle into their custom class. I've seen a damn Thaumaturge solo a hard NM without near the difficulty it took Avesta in XI to kill Genbu. It took Avesta 2 hours to kill that damn thing.....What I'm trying to say is that if there are no restrictions to the abilities being used by every class, then down the line it'll come accustomed to make a near-perfect class. Even if you use Gifthorse's "Nerf ability" concept, people will still choose the best abilities out of the pack.

My concept was in line with a few others in this thread. Make the access of certain abilities to be class specific. I'm not saying all abilities. You can still use abilities like ferocity and that Marauder ability that lets you syphon HP with the next attack. I don't agree that your pugilist can use raise. That's one ability that'll cripple the Conjurer. (It is Conjurer, right? lol) Right now it basically feels to me that if I'm playing Pugilist, I'm also playing Marauder/Lancer/Gladiator. And in your case, Conjurer. I can't say Archer, because that class has a bow. lol

[Lamhirh]

Well there is other way. If you want bonus skills or bonus efficiency in soe skills, you sign for guild, and you can be only actibe in ONE guild at time. you still use current system, but all skills from current guikld are enhanced/easier to equip( less points cost) (or maybe skills from different guilds costs more to equip?) Yes it would require you to run to city, find the guild and do short conversatioj for that, but how diferent would be it from trunning to moghouse and equiping job and sub?

[gifthorse]

Well there is other way. If you want bonus skills or bonus efficiency in soe skills, you sign for guild, and you can be only actibe in ONE guild at time. you still use current system, but all skills from current guikld are enhanced/easier to equip( less points cost) (or maybe skills from different guilds costs more to equip?) Yes it would require you to run to city, find the guild and do short conversatioj for that, but how diferent would be it from trunning to moghouse and equiping job and sub?

Well there are way more flexible ways of achieving the same thing.

Like, for example, just choosing something from your UI that indicates what role you want to be.

[Kimahri]

i say it's an easy fix. give more items in the guilds such as luminous spire for gladiator that you can only get by using gladiator guild marks in the gladiator guild and can only be used by the gladiator. it would give each class more uniqueness by allowing people to purchase higher level abilities only their main class can use. this allows people to pend the hrs leveling another class for its abilities to stick on their main/favorite class without taking away from the uniqueness of the class that basic learned ability came from. can you really tell me if i learned to cast cure on myself that if i grabbed a sword i would forget how to do it even though i still have magic in me? if i learned a special punch and i had a bow in my hand i would still have the ability to punch something. now if it is something from the guild itself they all want you in "their guild only" so then it would mean those abilities should only be used on those classes.

I also agree to this one that using guild marks to purchase abilities would go a long way to making the class more unique. I also think another way is to set the weaponskills as the class only being able to use them. Don't agree with a Lancer using Arrow Helix from an Archer.

[Seikninkuru]

Now I see what you're saying. I'm not going to start an argument with you, just show you a point or two. What you're saying about what a THM does with nuking and debuffing I have absolutely no problem about it what so ever. Since it's only one of two mage classes, I don't mind a limit to the cure. Sacrifice is basically all Thaumaturge needs. I don't see why it would also need a Conjurer's cure if it has one of it's own? Things along this line I'm in total support for.

What I don't agree with is the fact that people can pick and choose from all the abilities to settle into their custom class. I've seen a damn Thaumaturge solo a hard NM without near the difficulty it took Avesta in XI to kill Genbu. It took Avesta 2 hours to kill that damn thing.....What I'm trying to say is that if there are no restrictions to the abilities being used by every class, then down the line it'll come accustomed to make a near-perfect class. Even if you use Gifthorse's "Nerf ability" concept, people will still choose the best abilities out of the pack.

My concept was in line with a few others in this thread. Make the access of certain abilities to be class specific. I'm not saying all abilities. You can still use abilities like ferocity and that Marauder ability that lets you syphon HP with the next attack. I don't agree that your pugilist can use raise. That's one ability that'll cripple the Conjurer. (It is Conjurer, right? lol) Right now it basically feels to me that if I'm playing Pugilist, I'm also playing Marauder/Lancer/Gladiator. And in your case, Conjurer. I can't say Archer, because that class has a bow. lol

You seen a THm take a hard NM because one ability they have is pretty OP, so instead of fixing the ability... limit the system? Is that what you're saying? The point is the 'class' doesnt define your role the abilities you equip do. Sorry to say there aren't many roles in roleplaying games, just flavor the role in which you choose(Tank, Melee DD, Ranged DD, Magic DD, Magic Support, Melee Support, that's a few I'm sure others would add things like debuffer/controller). The tools are there to make the "role" you want exactly how you the individual want to play it. I have yet to join a group that demands you have a specific set of abilities equipped.

Why shouldn't a hand to hand combat user be able to equip a rez? When I play my gladiator it's much different than my marauder and much different than my puglist(which is the most fun of all of them imo).

[darkstarpoet1]

Now I see what you're saying. I'm not going to start an argument with you, just show you a point or two. What you're saying about what a THM does with nuking and debuffing I have absolutely no problem about it what so ever. Since it's only one of two mage classes, I don't mind a limit to the cure. Sacrifice is basically all Thaumaturge needs. I don't see why it would also need a Conjurer's cure if it has one of it's own? Things along this line I'm in total support for.

What I don't agree with is the fact that people can pick and choose from all the abilities to settle into their custom class. I've seen a damn Thaumaturge solo a hard NM without near the difficulty it took Avesta in XI to kill Genbu. It took Avesta 2 hours to kill that damn thing.....What I'm trying to say is that if there are no restrictions to the abilities being used by every class, then down the line it'll come accustomed to make a near-perfect class. Even if you use Gifthorse's "Nerf ability" concept, people will still choose the best abilities out of the pack.

My concept was in line with a few others in this thread. Make the access of certain abilities to be class specific. I'm not saying all abilities. You can still use abilities like ferocity and that Marauder ability that lets you syphon HP with the next attack. I don't agree that your pugilist can use raise. That's one ability that'll cripple the Conjurer. (It is Conjurer, right? lol) Right now it basically feels to me that if I'm playing Pugilist, I'm also playing Marauder/Lancer/Gladiator. And in your case, Conjurer. I can't say Archer, because that class has a bow. lol

well technically resurrect and it's a thm ability, but i do see your point. my point is my pug has magic and i learned a magic ability after spending a month leveling my thm so why should i not be able to use it. i use it as an addition to assist my mage not criple it and am used in a party in that role. a mage doesn't need to get close to a nm with big aoe attacks, but my 50 pug that has the ability can. i just feel the the learned abilities should be able to be used by your other classes because you took the time to learn them. i feel that classes would become more unique if they gave more of the abilities through the guilds that you could purchase as class specific abilities. then you could get the higher level abilities to use on only that class. i just don't see how if i have a 40 thm and a 50 pug i am crippling the thm class. i took the time to level it and play as both classes in nm battles depending on what is needed from me. i wasn't tryin to argue with you just showing that whether or not you agree with my play style or not it is how the game was made.

if you really want to watch the thm solo the nm pay attention it uses almost all thm abilities not other classes. the reason it does it is because emulate is a way overpowered move. if you take the elemental resistance from a mob and put it on yourself the mage takes less than 1/4 the damage a main tanking gladiator does. then it can use another move shadowseer and do massive damage to the nm. the thm is overpowered as bad as the arc is imo, but that is for se to do something about nerfing them it's not cross class abilities causing it. have you seen a pug/arc/gla/lnc solo a nm even though it can use most of the abilities? that class is just overpowered and people found the glitch to make it massive and se will get it fixed.

[Kimahri]

You seen a THm take a hard NM because one ability they have is pretty OP, so instead of fixing the ability... limit the system? Is that what you're saying? The point is the 'class' doesnt define your role the abilities you equip do. Sorry to say there aren't many roles in roleplaying games, just flavor the role in which you choose(Tank, Melee DD, Ranged DD, Magic DD, Magic Support, Melee Support, that's a few I'm sure others would add things like debuffer/controller). The tools are there to make the "role" you want exactly how you the individual want to play it. I have yet to join a group that demands you have a specific set of abilities equipped.

Why shouldn't a hand to hand combat user be able to equip a rez? When I play my gladiator it's much different than my marauder and much different than my puglist(which is the most fun of all of them imo).

Well this one is I want to combine two things from yours and Darkstarpoet1, but I don't know how to multi-quote. Now what you're saying is that you haven't joined a group that demands a specific set of abilities. Darkstar is basically saying that if he leveled THM & CON to 50 then why can't he implement those abilities into his 50 PUG? Here's where I join the two with some points.

Down the line...It's not a question of if but when will people start asking for you to level certain classes to obtain those certain abilities to integrate in your role? Also is what if people don't really want to level those classes just for specific abilities? Should they be scorned because they'd rather level only a few classes, such as myself? Wouldn't this basically seem along the lines of a WAR/BLM in FFXI? If you don't have the right abilities, I don't want you in my group. This seems to me that it's going to come down to who levels the most jobs just for certain abilities.