How would you feel if they scrapped the current "classes"?

[Kimahri]

I would like them to scrap the current class names and go with the traditional FF names. Gladiator is more fitting for Lineage, and rift, but seem out of place to me, being a long time FF player.

Before I continue, my resume includes, FF 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, 11, 12, 13, 14, mystic quest(go ahead laugh), tactics and advanced 1/2, Dissidia if you count that.

If they do add the traditional classes I hope abilities and traits are something like this.

1. Weapon skills are tied to weapon, and there are some ws's that can only be used by certain classes.

2. Weapons are no longer tied to classes. Let people just change classes now with the same prerequisite, i.e. in passive mode, and no one in party is engaging the enemy.

3. Some abilities are tied to certain classes, likely being the staple abilities of each class, while the rest can be accessed by every class in the same manner as they are now.

4. Traits are treated like abilities, except they are passive, of course.

I really like how SE are being more vocal, and more importantly, I like how they are trying different things. I think this "catastrophe" may for them to stop and brain storm, maybe returning them to their forward glory, and if not, well, I guess I'll be gaming a lot less.

Although I agree with your points of view, I hardly care about the renaming of the classes. Only one's I would consider would be the Conjurer & Thaumaturge.

With your points to the weapons, I'm game. I really loved the skill point system on weapon's from XI.

[MarkH]

I agree, I think the weaponskill should be tied to weapon as well. I believe that the fact that any weapon can use most weaponskill now contribute to the lackluster weaponskill animation. I just don't think they can make your character bash the enemy serveral times a la Raging Rush if the same animation has to work with a bow.

I think this is why currently the best looking animation (i.e. Arrow Helix) are class specific

[Kimahri]

Yes. But like Vaymathias said about weaponskills. They are tied to the weapon, but there are still certain weaponskills that are only class specific.

[MarkH]

That's alright. As long as the Dev don't have to think of how my Great Axe weaponskill animation will look like when I use a polearm, I think they can come up with some excellent animation.

[AlexiaKidd]

The problem with the system in FFXI was not the system it used but the people that expected you to use it to achieve an optimal build and that will be no different in FFXIV. As soon as a skill comes out that is as effective as Utsusami then it doesn't matter what class or rank it is people will expect you to have it, especially if you are a tank.

The game at the minute provides little challenge for people to have a reason to have these optimal builds but as soon as they ramp up the challenge and certain skill's and abilities start to shine through then people will start expecting it.

The current system is not so flexible to allow you to really make any class you want like some seem to think, if I invite a GLA to a party I would expect him to tank, if he turned up and said "no I want to main heal" then lets just say that wouldn't go down to well. If I invite an Archer he will be a ranged attacker, if I want someone to main heal I will invite a CON or THM.

The only thing the current system does is help with building a solo class, so you can add those cure's and defence moves to make it easier. I personally believe it would have been better if they kept the sub job system and allowed you to call your companion to help you solo. So if you were a DD then your companion could be a mage to help cure, if you were a mage your companion could be a tank or DD and so on.

By doing what they have done it will create a balancing nightmare and as such they will really struggle to make classes unique as if they give them something good, then unless it is tied to that class people will expect you to have it on your class.

[Kimahri]

The problem with the system in FFXI was not the system it used but the people that expected you to use it to achieve an optimal build and that will be no different in FFXIV. As soon as a skill comes out that is as effective as Utsusami then it doesn't matter what class or rank it is people will expect you to have it, especially if you are a tank.

The game at the minute provides little challenge for people to have a reason to have these optimal builds but as soon as they ramp up the challenge and certain skill's and abilities start to shine through then people will start expecting it.

The current system is not so flexible to allow you to really make any class you want like some seem to think, if I invite a GLA to a party I would expect him to tank, if he turned up and said "no I want to main heal" then lets just say that wouldn't go down to well. If I invite an Archer he will be a ranged attacker, if I want someone to main heal I will invite a CON or THM.

The only thing the current system does is help with building a solo class, so you can add those cure's and defence moves to make it easier. I personally believe it would have been better if they kept the sub job system and allowed you to call your companion to help you solo. So if you were a DD then your companion could be a mage to help cure, if you were a mage your companion could be a tank or DD and so on.

By doing what they have done it will create a balancing nightmare and as such they will really struggle to make classes unique as if they give them something good, then unless it is tied to that class people will expect you to have it on your class.

Now just a little comment towards your first paragraph. A Paladin almost never used the Ninja as a subjob. Hell almost all of them didn't sub it, because it was much better to sub other jobs for maximum damage. The only job I seen subbing Ninja would've been a Thief and Warrior.

Now the rest of your post I completely aggre with. There is absolutely nothing different about any class other than the fact that they are divided upon two groups. DoW & DoM. However! This is where we need to base our improvements. I do not want a cheap gimmick of FFXI slapped on a new skin of graphics. It might be fun for a year or two, but eventually it'll decay faster than FFXI actually did.

I would like to keep the classes as they are. Limit the other classes from obtaining the abilities of a certain class. Untie the weapon from the class, and base it back to the system of XI. Keep BR, but define & tweak it a little more. And down the future maybe implement a choice of either two avenue's each class could take to an advanced job. (Example: Say they raise the level cap to 75 again. Have the ability to choose either Paladin or Dark Knight from the base class of a Rank 50 Gladiator.)

This is just a few idea's, and yes my idea's could be refined even better. That's basically the whole point of these Forum's.

[AlexiaKidd]

Now just a little comment towards your first paragraph. A Paladin almost never used the Ninja as a subjob. Hell almost all of them didn't sub it, because it was much better to sub other jobs for maximum damage. The only job I seen subbing Ninja would've been a Thief and Warrior.

Now the rest of your post I completely aggre with. There is absolutely nothing different about any class other than the fact that they are divided upon two groups. DoW & DoM. However! This is where we need to base our improvements. I do not want a cheap gimmick of FFXI slapped on a new skin of graphics. It might be fun for a year or two, but eventually it'll decay faster than FFXI actually did.

I would like to keep the classes as they are. Limit the other classes from obtaining the abilities of a certain class. Untie the weapon from the class, and base it back to the system of XI. Keep BR, but define & tweak it a little more. And down the future maybe implement a choice of either two avenue's each class could take to an advanced job. (Example: Say they raise the level cap to 75 again. Have the ability to choose either Paladin or Dark Knight from the base class of a Rank 50 Gladiator.)

This is just a few idea's, and yes my idea's could be refined even better. That's basically the whole point of these Forum's.

Sorry I used Utsusami as an example, the point I was trying to make is in FFXI there were restrictions that stopped you from taking the best abilities from each class and creating a super class. If FFXI was like this then everyone would level NIN for shadow's, everyone would level SAM for Hasso, Meditate, Third Eye, Siegan, everyone would level WAR for Berserk, War Cry, Aggressor, everyone would level RDM for Convert, Refresh and Haste and so on, it would be completely out of control.

That is what I fear is happening with the current system, already you have THM's that can solo the NM's which are designed for 15 people, how is that balance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDk94b3oZbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KazOD98mqr4

I have levelled MRD to 50 and started levelling all the other classes I have everything above R24 but I am mainly focusing on ARC now and even I can see how over powered I am becoming adding abilities like, ferocity, faint,invigorate, maim, still precision, skull sunder and so on, on top of my Archers already OP abilties. I can kill things way above what I should be doing and I have that many attack buff's and weapon skill's that most of the time I can't even use them all because everything is dead so quick.

They system need's to be seriously looked at because it is broken as hell at the minute.

[Mortikhan]

I can't say I am thrilled with the new system but also not thrilled with the FFXI version either. Maybe an implementation of both systems is in order. Bear with me here this might be a bit lengthy.

Assuming this:

Class = Skill set
Job = Role

Keep the Classes as they are including the current max level. Upon achievement of certain class levels you can unlock an "advanced" class. These advance classes would be the more traditional named jobs. The hook to this would be that these advanced jobs would require multiple classes to unlock.

Example:

Red Mage would be an advanced job. To unlock the quest necessary to become a Red Mage you might have to achieve Conjurer 30 and Thaumaturge 30 and complete the individual class quests associated with them. You might even want to throw in Gladiator 20 as a requirement as well.

In short you would need to train your "Classes" (skill sets) before you could perform your main "Job" (role).

When you graduated into your new role you could still use any and all abilities that you could from those classes needed to gain access to the new job. However you would be limited to selecting from those classes when setting up your skill bars for your job. The new job would also have its own set of specialized skills only available to that specific job. You would then start leveling your job and getting the new abilities that it offers and still have the option of reverting to the individual classes to train them further (possibly for gaining access to other jobs or gaining access to other abilities that may help the job your are working on).

Using this style of system would also allow the introduction of job specific abilities such as 2-hour abilities. This would also allow SE to implement more classes and jobs to the game based simply on the requirements necessary to get a job you may want to try and implement more questing content into the game. In addition you would also gain the ability to use multiple weapons which would only be restricted to the classes needed to gain access to a job. For Red Mage you could use Sword, Shield, Staff and Wands to go one step further with the example above.

One last note I would like to make about this style of doing things would be that I am seeing a lot of posts about how people are upset about how easy the game can be at times and how it seems to be so "solo" oriented. Using this system would allow for both solo and party based content. The quests you would unlock for your classes would be primarily solo content while job related quests would allow for a more difficult curve and have more of a requirement for party play.

Just some thoughts on how to have the best of both worlds...Sorry for the wall of text.

Mort

PS. You could also work other classes like crafting and gathering into the requirements. (ie. The Alchemist job would require Alchemy to a certain level as an obvious example.)

[Kimahri]

I can't say I am thrilled with the new system but also not thrilled with the FFXI version either. Maybe an implementation of both systems is in order. Bear with me here this might be a bit lengthy.

Assuming this:

Class = Skill set
Job = Role

Keep the Classes as they are including the current max level. Upon achievement of certain class levels you can unlock an "advanced" class. These advance classes would be the more traditional named jobs. The hook to this would be that these advanced jobs would require multiple classes to unlock.

Example:

Red Mage would be an advanced job. To unlock the quest necessary to become a Red Mage you might have to achieve Conjurer 30 and Thaumaturge 30 and complete the individual class quests associated with them. You might even want to throw in Gladiator 20 as a requirement as well.

In short you would need to train your "Classes" (skill sets) before you could perform your main "Job" (role).

I have heard this from other threads, but I feel that what you're trying to do is jump the gun and install new advanced classes too soon. There are far too many problems with the original seven classes we have now. I do not see how this relates to anything regarding a unique quality of the classes.

It's basically like saying, "Here. Level this class to this level, and we'll give you another class with everything and then some!" It's some really good thinking, man. I'm being honest. However I just don't feel like this is the solution we should stride for.

[Kimahri]

Sorry I used Utsusami as an example, the point I was trying to make is in FFXI there were restrictions that stopped you from taking the best abilities from each class and creating a super class. If FFXI was like this then everyone would level NIN for shadow's, everyone would level SAM for Hasso, Meditate, Third Eye, Siegan, everyone would level WAR for Berserk, War Cry, Aggressor, everyone would level RDM for Convert, Refresh and Haste and so on, it would be completely out of control.

That is what I fear is happening with the current system, already you have THM's that can solo the NM's which are designed for 15 people, how is that balance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDk94b3oZbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KazOD98mqr4

I have levelled MRD to 50 and started levelling all the other classes I have everything above R24 but I am mainly focusing on ARC now and even I can see how over powered I am becoming adding abilities like, ferocity, faint,invigorate, maim, still precision, skull sunder and so on, on top of my Archers already OP abilties. I can kill things way above what I should be doing and I have that many attack buff's and weapon skill's that most of the time I can't even use them all because everything is dead so quick.

They system need's to be seriously looked at because it is broken as hell at the minute.

Exactly! Those video's are proof enough that this system is flawed. If anyone knows the guy Avesta from FFXI, you'll know he did most things solo that other people couldn't, because he had a great strategy to use only his RDM skills. Now......It just seems rather stupid that what took someone a long time to perfect is now being perfected as soon as a couple months?