What happens when.....

[Donjo]

...

I say that you're suggesting homogenization, and your counter is that it's okay to do it because it's already happening? That's the shining reason not to do it!

The reason WAR got that revamped is not because it required i90 to do the content. It was because it pretty much flat out couldn't clear it under any circumstance(the dev reason for this was that nobody actually figured out how to properly play the job). It wasn't because of DPS; it was because they died too easily - because they were expressly inferior at their most basic role: being a Tank. Any time the hardest content was successfully tanked by a Warrior it was a massive heal carry. You know what Paladin has done in 3.0? Clear all of the content in the entire game, well before entire parties were i210. Their only crime is that they did it a few weeks later than the other guys, with outgoing DPS being the only reason it took longer. This is not a "revamp the entire class problem". This is a "tweak a few abilities" problem. And it is especially not a reason to give yet another job stacks!

Stop stuffing the Paladin so far into the garbage and at least try to embrace the tools it does have instead of trying to imagine massively unneeded overhauls to solve problems that don't actually exist.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

I say that you're suggesting homogenization, and your counter is that it's okay to do it because it's already happening? That's the shining reason not to do it!

The reason WAR got that revamped is not because it required i90 to do the content. It was because it pretty much flat out couldn't clear it under any circumstance(the dev reason for this was that nobody actually figured out how to properly play the job). It wasn't because of DPS; it was because they died too easily - because they were expressly inferior at their most basic role: being a Tank. Any time the hardest content was successfully tanked by a Warrior it was a massive heal carry. You know what Paladin has done in 3.0? Clear all of the content in the entire game, well before entire parties were i210. Their only crime is that they did it a few weeks later than the other guys, with outgoing DPS being the only reason it took longer. This is not a "revamp the entire class problem". This is a "tweak a few abilities" problem. And it is especially not a reason to give yet another job stacks!

Stop stuffing the Paladin so far into the garbage and at least try to embrace the tools it does have instead of trying to imagine massively unneeded overhauls to solve problems that don't actually exist.

"You argue that too many classes already rely on debuffs/buffs to manage that would cause catastrophe if allowed to expire....welcome to Ninja, Bard, Machinist, Paladin, Warrior, Dark Knight, Monk, Black Mage, Astrologian, Scholar, and every other job in the entire game, because they ALL possess such abilities (some even have the EXACT same function and timer.) Homogenization is here by that logic."
That's what I said. At no point in the entirety of this thread have I ever advocated for what you call homogenization. I used your logic against you as you claim too many jobs have what a Paladin would benefit from yet you ignore the fact that since the very inception of cross-class abilities means we have been introduced to the most literal sense of homogenization. It's only homogenization when each job has access to abilities that function the exact same way on every job that can have them. I am not the one advocating it, you outright admitted that homogenization exists already. You made a claim that there are already enough jobs that have stacking mechanics (which don't function like my proposal and that alone means that the concept and the implementation would be unique to Paladin specifically.)

Let me list just some jobs and the way in which they all reduce outgoing damage of an enemy:
Blackmage - Virus (STR and Dex)
Paladin - Rage of Halone (STR)
White Mage - Virus (STR and Dex)
Warrior - Storm's Path (General Damage)
Astrologian - Disable (General Damage)


'It was because it pretty much flat out couldn't clear it under any circumstance...'
You've said this. You made the claim that it would have been a healer carry yet ignore the fact that what Paladins face is a DPS carry. Zdenka Vaera himself has said that he outright abandoned Paladin because despite having the best equipment it could have at the time it could not allow for an A4S clear until not only it but other jobs were more thoroughly equipped. Here is video evidence of someone surviving as a Warrior (pre-restructuring,) funnily enough, you might actually know her : MTQCapture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5r2bm86JQY
She not long ago, in fact, brought up this very thing in her stream. I would link you the exact archived video from Twitch with a timestap if I didn't know that in one or two months that video would be gone due to Twitch deleting VoD's as they approach one to two months of age. I guess as this point, you and those viewing this will just have to trust me.


The very idea that you're trying to prevent something that is in no way, shape or form what you suggest it to be while ignoring what's already in the game is an exercise in futility. If you wish to truly remove homogenization and shout down those that have come up with more than just "buff X job plz" I kindly ask you to create a petition to remove ALL cross class abilities. After you've done that speak with me on the matter again. While we're on the matter of doing more than just buffing Paladin, I'd like to tell you, in my original post I describe that my suggestion would be more than a band-aid issue that you so fervently desire. The implementation I suggest would allow Paladins to use more spells in the future without expressly needing to be handed everything on a silver platter. I want to WORK for my ability and potential, I don't want it handed to me.


If you further doubt how much a Paladin needs concerning its lackluster kit, speak with the likes of Xenosys Vex, MTQCapture, Zdenka Vaera, The FC named Elysium, Eagledorf (on the FF 14 official forums) and countless other people. The evidence is only becoming more and more evident that a buff will only grant Paladin short term success.