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  1. #11
    Player
    Awful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,277
    Character
    Awful Name
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Disc View Post

    Minor adjustments like increasing the enmity modifier on RoH or reducing the cast time on Clemency would do wonders for PLD. You will be sorely disappointed on patch day if you're expecting 2.0 WAR levels of change.
    As a person who used to main pld back in 2.0 I can only agree with this 100% it'll be minor tweaks wars back in 2.0 were so terrible that changes had to be made or they'd lose that class forever. Paladin won't ever lose it's spot as it is still a capable MT.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player
    Syzygian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    735
    Character
    Syzygia Coahcuhhar
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Berry View Post
    Can you define "maximum potential", because I always though it was to fully be able to survive TBs and hold aggro perfectly.
    This is not maximum potential, this is the bare minimum.

    Aggro is the most basic of your job requirements, and tank busters are so scripted and predictable that they are actually probably the easiest thing in any given encounter to survive.
    (2)

  3. #13
    Player
    Shining_Tiger_Excalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    127
    Character
    Shining Tiger
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    It's finally done! I only ask of you to offer your feelings on these proposals, show this thread to others, and keep being your kindhearted and understanding selves. I appreciate you all greatly.
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player
    Leidiriv's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    191
    Character
    Leidri'sae Bherre
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    I'm not quite sure what the Unstoppable Force/Immovable Object stacks are meant to do. Are they meant to give you a total of 50% Crit Rate and 100% damage for your first WS in SwO for UF and a 750% SpS and 50% Det bonus for your first spell in ShO for IO? Or is it such that you get the base 10% Crit Rate/20% Damage for all five WS's that you're able to use while in SwO under the effects of UF, and then get the 150% SpS and 10% Det for each spell you cast while in ShO under the effects of IO?

    Depending which variation (big burst at the start tapering off to normal, or static increase in power for the whole duration) of UF/IO you have chosen to use for the purposes of this essay, that will greatly determine my stance on this form of a PLD buff. The concept of UF/IO is interesting, but I would have to know *just* how it plays in order to form an educated opinion on the subject.

    I hope my ramblings in the first couple sentences are coherent enough for you to get the idea of what I'm questioning.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player
    Shining_Tiger_Excalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    127
    Character
    Shining Tiger
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Leidiriv View Post
    Or is it such that you get the base 10% Crit Rate/20% Damage for all five WS's that you're able to use while in SwO under the effects of UF, and then get the 150% SpS and 10% Det for each spell you cast while in ShO under the effects of IO?
    It would function like the question you're asking here.

    They'd essentially work like playing cards where the damage is spread out over five skills used. When you use one skill you're "discarding" the playing card.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player
    Leidiriv's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    191
    Character
    Leidri'sae Bherre
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Thank you for the quick reply! In the case of that functionality, I absolutely love this series of adjustments. It makes PLD a more dynamic class while still retaining the overall image of the class. I'm all for this idea.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player
    Freyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,079
    Character
    Freyja Redgold
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Your new Paladin seems pretty fun to play. I like your writing, your thread was enjoyable to read even if it's not "perfect". I personally don't think PLD especially needs an entire re-work, but they indeed do need some kind of tweaks. I like your stacks idea and I would be pleased to see something like that coming up in the future for PLD. The current gameplay of this job is quiiiiite boring and this would be pretty refreshing.

    I usually don't like suggestion threads (there is already a shitton of them for PLD), because they are often really extreme and I prefer waiting to see what the devs will bring us. But yours is made with a rare quality and I can only salute that. I hope that this thread will not fall into salty discussions and will stay constructive.

    All suggestion threads should be like this. Thank you OP.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    Shining_Tiger_Excalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    127
    Character
    Shining Tiger
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Freyyy View Post
    Your new Paladin seems pretty fun to play. I like your writing, your thread was enjoyable to read even if it's not "perfect". I personally don't think PLD especially needs an entire re-work, but they indeed do need some kind of tweaks. I like your stacks idea and I would be pleased to see something like that coming up in the future for PLD. The current gameplay of this job is quiiiiite boring and this would be pretty refreshing.

    I usually don't like suggestion threads (there is already a shitton of them for PLD), because they are often really extreme and I prefer waiting to see what the devs will bring us. But yours is made with a rare quality and I can only salute that. I hope that this thread will not fall into salty discussions and will stay constructive.

    All suggestion threads should be like this. Thank you OP.
    Thank you for your kind words. I really hope this forum thread sets the internet on fire, figuratively of course, because I truly believe this will set Paladin up for success and consideration in the future. This kind of setup means Paladins, both currently and in the future, would be able to use both offensive and defensive spells as well as possible ailment curing abilities and status inflicting spells in such a way that we will be able to assist the party in meeting tank, dps, and healer checks without being a requirement to progress. It's plain to see that currently Paladin offers no real reason to include them in raid progression due to not only hard enrage DPS checks but the fact that regardless of content ALL tanks can handle the tankbusters easily. I imagine this will remain the case in the future as well, even if the next raid tier is "mostly physical." Paladins will still fail DPS checks and offer an only half complete toolkit.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur; 09-28-2015 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Character Limit

  9. #19
    Player Violette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    545
    Character
    Eonkhui Malaguld
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Love the thread, and prior discussion we've had but I feel you've stepped away from what the paladin is meant to be, according to SE's direction since 1.0.

    The paladin has always been both a simple tank, and the most defensive. While it's true that with intricacy must come some degree of superiority (though dark knight played flawlessly gives nothing on a warrior), giving paladin stacks to juggle while interesting, adds a level of complexity and increased potential with gear that would likely infer nerfs in the future. Rather than what you've suggested, I think some quality of life changes in lieu of a massive overhaul would better suite the game.

    -ShO, SwO and Grit all become abilities. Simple, effective. The gain of 2 gcd will help with dps.

    -ShO enmity brought roughly in line with Drk and War modifiers in tank stance. I say roughly because paladins will get more enmity generation from using damaging skills (savage blade combo)

    -Clemency becomes instacast. Like flash.

    -Shelltron now restores TP on block. Shield Swipe restores some mana on use. Let's paladin control their mana pool better and tp issues become less apparent in long fights.

    -Shelltron now provides also 10% magic defense for 6 seconds on use. Effect ends Paladin blocks an attack. Smart paladins have their own mini-dark mind.

    -Cover in SwO no longer changes damage to paladin, but lowers paladin defense/mdefense by 20% and increases target's by 20% for duration. Giving Paladin the ability to provide defense with one of their least used skills feels thematically correct, of a all defense tank.

    Small changes are all the paladin needs, giving it complexity that rewards offensive style play does not feel right for a paladin. Even when they are not main tanking, they should possess defensive utilities, not extra offensive power to fit the theme imo.

    However, I am open to other people's opinions on this. These do not address the fact that shield swipe and shelltron are still near dead weight when the paladin is not tanking physical attacks. Tying skills to being attacked for 2/3 tanks gives the Warrior an unfair advantage when it comes to off-tanking (1 more skill gg), but making the paladin more utility based means they would shine more in savage fights that are not pure dps checks (horrid design).
    (0)
    Last edited by Violette; 09-28-2015 at 11:03 PM. Reason: word limit lele

  10. #20
    Player
    Donjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    980
    Character
    A'lyhhia Tahz
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    I would have to say... no. This is a bad idea. Paladin's problems are not nearly bad enough to warrant a complete revamp.

    Furthermore, of all of the wailing and moaning people have been doing over the idea of homogenization and people using the term incorrectly, this is a thread that truly makes a homogenizating suggestion. Too many jobs have some sort of Stack mechanic or otherwise some kind of persistent buff that results in severe reprocussions should it fall off. Paladin doesn't need one too. Not now, not ever.
    (2)

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