What happens when.....

[Jim_Berry]

Can you define "maximum potential", because I always though it was to fully be able to survive TBs and hold aggro perfectly.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

Can you define "maximum potential", because I always though it was to fully be able to survive TBs and hold aggro perfectly.

As many users in other forum threads have said, all three tanks in regards to tank busters handle the need to mitigate damage fairly well. On the subject of maintaining aggro, specifically in the Paladins case, it also requires some abilities from Ninja in order to secure aggro not only in Sword Oath but in some cases Shield Oath. For progressions sake a Paladin has thus far generally been required to maintain Sword Oath stance for a large portion of encounters in Savage Alexander. There are some videos that depict tanks losing aggro to one another and their healers so enmity generation does seem to be a problem. While I enjoy and encourage this type of difficulty in a pre-made party that's clearing content there are instances where our weaknesses become obvious.

It's my belief that tanks are unique in a variety of ways. In four man dungeons we can't plan for the group composition that we are given and sometimes, despite our best efforts, we will encounter problems with enmity generation (mostly with regards to Paladin.) While I feel that the enmity modifiers aren't a huge concern, I can certainly tell when a DPS outgears me even by just a few 210 pieces. I have a mixture of 180 and 190 accessories with 190 and 200 item level left side; there are times that even wearing Strength accessories while in Shield Oath I will occasionally run into problems if that particular DPS thoroughly knows their job role and abilities. Black Mages, Dragoons, and some Monks give me the most trouble. I've been playing Paladin for over a year and have a fairly good amount of knowledge and experience on how to employ Paladin properly, if you were wondering. This is what I meant in regards to "maximum potential." As I can't overcome my own weaknesses, sometimes it feels like I'm being smothered. It's a rare occasion, I'll admit.

[Snowy_Mist]

I've been playing Paladin for over a year and have a fairly good amount of knowledge and experience on how to employ Paladin properly, if you were wondering. This is what I meant in regards to "maximum potential." As I can't overcome my own weaknesses, sometimes it feels like I'm being smothered. It's a rare occasion, I'll admit.

If you are losing aggro in df instances in shield oath you don't know how to play paladin sorry, my paladin doesn't have his eso wep yet i don't have any aggro issues in 8 man instances even in sword oath.

I'm sorry but if you were having problems in df easy instances and are basing most your opinions off that, it just makes your whole thread moot.

And i personally had no problems using stoneskin/ds/clemency when leveling in dungeons whilst holding aggro and stance dancing, it was imo probably the easiest class in dungeons to do so because of paladins utility of blind/stun/pacification and its burst with fof.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

If you are losing aggro in df instances in shield oath you don't know how to play paladin sorry, my paladin doesn't have his eso wep yet i don't have any aggro issues in 8 man instances even in sword oath.

I'm sorry but if you were having problems in df easy instances and are basing most your opinions off that, it just makes your whole thread moot.

And i personally had no problems using stoneskin/ds/clemency when leveling in dungeons whilst holding aggro and stance dancing, it was imo probably the easiest class in dungeons to do so because of paladins utility of blind/stun/pacification and its burst with fof.

I believe more information is needed for you in order to understand my position on the threat issue I have. I'll present you with two situations for a more concrete representation.
1. Situation one involves an encounter of 5+ enemies with some on my left and right flanks with one or two in front. Given the task of maintaining aggro on all of them in 9/10 dungeon runs is fairly easy. There are rare instances where either two DPS will focus on differing enemies or they begin to focus one down as I'm doing an aggro rotation through all enemies. To get back to my original target will take a minimum of 6-7 GCD's, which even with flashing and a Circle of Scorn leading up to my initial target, will present me with seeing a DPS up to 80% or greater of my aggro bar. Assuming the initial target received not only Shield Lob but Circle of Scorn, Flash, Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Flash, Rage of Halone and another Flash just for good measure, as I'm coming back to it I'll know that a DPS will be fast on my heels.

2. Situation two involves only a boss encounter. I'll initiate the encounter with a Shield Lob in Shield Oath and maintain it for a minimum of three aggro rotations with a couple of Flashes and the Circle of Scorn included. Transitioning to Sword Oath to begin DPS rotations I knowingly have to pay attention to my aggro bar with each successive Royal Authority and Goring Blade as is to be expected of me. Occasionally after every third or fourth Royal Authority I will add in one Rage of Halone combo to limit how fast the DPS catch me in terms of aggro generation. While I will never explicitly lose aggro, seeing others approaching the top worries me greatly. In one such encounter we finished the boss and I only had slightly larger than a sliver off aggro generation left.

In both situations one would be wise to ask "did the DPS use their aggro limitation/reduction abilities" first in order to give the benefit of the doubt to the player in question. From the observations I can make in the limited time I have, I'd have to say sometimes yes and sometimes no. I'll agree with the statement that as long as I'm in Shield Oath there won't be a considerable issue.

[Snowy_Mist]

snip

In terms of dungeons i usually number my mobs and if you use flash and cos regularly there shouldn't be too much of an issue, But yeah SE said they would address tank aggro gen.

For the latter is this raid or dungeons bosses still? If its raid you can comfortably get away with one shield oath roh combo then switching to swo for the rest of the duration. In dungeon bosses i have no issues with aggro if i open with sword oath and use my fof burst, especially if you put two goring blades in there. Then again i don't stack vit on my pld, which i think is what gives a lot other paladins trouble in this area.
Maximising the class involves limiting the time spent in shield oath and using cooldowns and your fofburst correctly in order to get more aggro gen.

I think Paladin would really shine if its RoH enmity was increased a lot, changes to shield swipe are made, and its utility improved.

[Leonus]

If you are losing aggro in df instances in shield oath you don't know how to play paladin sorry, my paladin doesn't have his eso wep yet i don't have any aggro issues in 8 man instances even in sword oath.

I'm sorry but if you were having problems in df easy instances and are basing most your opinions off that, it just makes your whole thread moot.

And i personally had no problems using stoneskin/ds/clemency when leveling in dungeons whilst holding aggro and stance dancing, it was imo probably the easiest class in dungeons to do so because of paladins utility of blind/stun/pacification and its burst with fof.

I don't know when he's in SwO but, as a drg, if he starts off on a raid boss in SwO, he will most certainly not be tanking before I am dead lol. :P

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

I don't know when he's in SwO but, as a drg, if he starts off on a raid boss in SwO, he will most certainly not be tanking before I am dead lol. :P

There are players like you that do remind me that I need to acknowledge your skill. I keep you in the back of my mind because I don't want to fail you. I like to think that those who say I don't know how to do my job just haven't met the right people that will make them rethink how good they themselves are.

[Syzygian]

Can you define "maximum potential", because I always though it was to fully be able to survive TBs and hold aggro perfectly.

This is not maximum potential, this is the bare minimum.

Aggro is the most basic of your job requirements, and tank busters are so scripted and predictable that they are actually probably the easiest thing in any given encounter to survive.