NO MORE ALEXANDER(NM)!

[Gilthas]

The NM and Savage concept is fine to me. The problem was with the execution. As it's supposed to be a 'story raid', rewards from NM should've amounted to vanity/glamour gear (like with the Odin trial, for example). Meanwhile Savage difficulty should've been brought to that of Second/Final Coil levels (or perhaps just above), then this wouldve satisfied both camps IMO.

How in the hells could you ever possibly believe that making the rewards for NM Alexander irrelevant crap "would've satisfied both camps". Do you think hardcore raiders are happy when people suggest that Savage shouldn't drop anything?

[Mutemutt]

How in the hells could you ever possibly believe that making the rewards for NM Alexander irrelevant crap "would've satisfied both camps". Do you think hardcore raiders are happy when people suggest that Savage shouldn't drop anything?

Well I suggested something similar and my reasoning was because all the complaints about coil I was hearing were about wanting to see the story. SE already has a precedent for the "story mode" in some of the later hard mode primals (leviathan, shiva, ramuh, etc), and no one complains about not getting gear there (or I having been hearing any) so I thought it was a workable formula.

The only problem I have with alexander as a whole (so far) is how the game encouraged you to run the normal mode fights repeatedly so that you would be as prepared as possible to challenge savage mode. I already kinda dread the next set because of that. Really wish it was a one and done type of deal.

[Gilthas]

Well I suggested something similar and my reasoning was because all the complaints about coil I was hearing were about wanting to see the story. SE already has a precedent for the "story mode" in some of the later hard mode primals (leviathan, shiva, ramuh, etc), and no one complains about not getting gear there (or I having been hearing any) so I thought it was a workable formula.

Yeah but how many times do people actually run NM Levi, Ramuh and Shiva? I did each of those once and never returned. SE apparently wants Alexander NM to be something for the casual crowd to have fun with. Remove the rewards and people will do them as often as they do the primals I mentioned.

[Mutemutt]

Yeah but how many times do people actually run NM Levi, Ramuh and Shiva? I did each of those once and never returned. SE apparently wants Alexander NM to be something for the casual crowd to have fun with. Remove the rewards and people will do them as often as they do the primals I mentioned.

Which is exactly what I said I wanted (in that same post too). I hate running NM alex over and over, but the game encourages me to do so. Is NM really that much fun for the "casual" crowd? I'll be honest, it seems about as fun as running Fractal or Nevereap 10 ~ 20 times in a row just collecting eso tomes.

[Synestra]

Yeah but how many times do people actually run NM Levi, Ramuh and Shiva?

Light farming, TT cards, minions, glamour etc.. There are ways to get peoples back in there after initial clear, and when new relic comes im 99% of sure we will see "i dont want to do old content again" topics popping left and right.

[FeliAiko]

How in the hells could you ever possibly believe that making the rewards for NM Alexander irrelevant crap "would've satisfied both camps". Do you think hardcore raiders are happy when people suggest that Savage shouldn't drop anything?

Suggested rewards for NM would've satisfied the camp that were asking for a story version of Coil with easier mechanics, and no loot. Case in point:

It's been a long time since we first asked for it. A version of the coil which would only serves the purpose of giving the story to players.

=> no loot at all
=> eased version compared to normal (less damage, few to none OH-KO moves)
=> does not grant access to the next normal coil

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-mode-isn-t-it

[Colorful]

Suggested rewards for NM would've satisfied the camp that were asking for a story version of Coil with easier mechanics, and no loot. Case in point:

What's up with those posters who are recommending watching it on YouTube? How about I unsubscribe and watch the game on YouTube? I can do that for every Final Fantasy to come too, since they're mostly story oriented. /smh

[Arashmin]

Suggested rewards for NM would've satisfied the camp that were asking for a story version of Coil with easier mechanics, and no loot. Case in point:

I think this is a very small group, and as Colorful points out, YouTube does accomplish the same. I wouldn't feel anywhere near the same immersion if something as impressive as Bahamut was so watered down.

And that's also the issue with Alex NM. Gear is pretty much 'not loot', since you're going to be replace it and there's little/no consideration for BiS involving lower-tiered gear, mechanics are stripped, and we don't know about access methodology. And people are mostly not happy with this.

[FeliAiko]

I think this is a very small group, and as Colorful points out, YouTube does accomplish the same. I wouldn't feel anywhere near the same immersion if something as impressive as Bahamut was so watered down.

And that's also the issue with Alex NM. Gear is pretty much 'not loot', since you're going to be replace it and there's little/no consideration for BiS involving lower-tiered gear, mechanics are stripped, and we don't know about access methodology. And people are mostly not happy with this.

I agree. To me, if you really want something you should be prepared to put in work for it. However, SE felt inclined to appeal to that crowd, and now here we are. Maybe if they'd separated the two from the on-set, without needing the gear in order to be Savage-ready, then perhaps things would've been different.

[Brian_]

I don't think there is enough incentive to do Savage but I don't think it's because of the NM / Savage dynamic. I think it's because there isn't enough to do with the gear you get. As it is, you only get gear in this game to help you clear the next tier of raid content and stand around in town looking pretty.

For the work that you need to put into progression, a lot of people have come to the conclusion that it's not worth it. That's why you have so many statics breaking up and players quitting the game.

People are forgetting a very important idea in MMOs and one the developers of this game have tried to stress. You want casual players to become hard-core players. If you don't have a steady influx of hard core players, eventually that part of the community will die out and your game will suffer as a result.

A lot of people I knew who were casual wanted to get into raiding with HW. Some of them had done parts of coil with echo and really liked what they experienced with the story and cool gear. They were at the door-step of becoming the hard-core player that SE covets. Then they tried Alexander Savage.

They went in, saw that it was the same thing as normal but with harder mechanics and raid checks, saw that the gear was basically the same thing with a higher ilevel, and just gave up on it. They didn't feel like they needed anything from Savage. So, a lot of them just went back to the daily routine of capping eso and maybe red scrips if they were gatherers / crafters, and a lot of them have quit since there is basically nothing to do if you don't do Savage.

SE really messed up. They had the chance to really hook a lot of their new HW subs and they dropped the ball because they didn't implement the proper progression and incentives for their casual players to become mid-core or hard-core players. They forgot their own design philosophy.

In a lot of other MMOs I've played, the gear itself is enough incentive. It lasts longer and is more relevant. In this game, PvP is synced so your gear doesn't matter much and a lot of the PvE experience is also synced. I remember my first time playing WoW and getting crushed by some level 50 horde in epic gear. I wanted revenge. I wanted to be better. It gave me something to aspire towards and hooked me. I remember doing raids and dungeons with raid-geared players and being star-struck. That dynamic does not exist in FFXIV.

So really, it's about how to make a healthier game. I don't get the animosity between the different groups. Why are casual players even upset that they don't get to experience all the content? They wouldn't anyways. I don't see people complaining about there being too many classes / jobs in this game because they can't get around to experiencing all their stories. Is there so little content for casuals to enjoy that they have to take content away from raiders? It doesn't make sense to me.