Angry Bards

[TiaHeart]

Is it sooooo hard to understand that as far as positioning goes i actually prefered to think "i know this fight by heart and in 5 seconds i need to be at A. It takes me 2.3 seconds to get there, so my latest move will have to be in 2.7" instead of factoring in when to disable WM or the cast time of a shot? Did this freedom make certain stuff easier? Yes. Was it unfair and made the class op? No. Did even bards have to do the former positioning thoughts for perfect play? Yes for songs cast time and auto attack at the very least.

Just WHERE was the need to move the class closer to others (wether its blm smn heal or mch does not matter to me at all) by slapping all those WM related downsides of other classes on this one different free spirited class in terms of movement and rotation/skills? I get it changes were made, i and other brds need to #adopt #l2p or #gtfo. I just cant bring myself to agree this is a good way to turn things

[Malevicton]

Just WHERE was the need to move the class closer to others (wether its blm smn heal or mch does not matter to me at all) by slapping all those WM related downsides of other classes on this one different free spirited class in terms of movement and rotation/skills? I get it changes were made, i and other brds need to #adopt #l2p or #gtfo. I just cant bring myself to agree this is a good way to turn things

Arguing from "need" is always a bit iffy. They don't need to do pretty much anything. You could use that same argument against literally everything in the expansion. We don't need new zones, flying, enochian, botd, etc. But it's the way they wanted to go with it. It didn't "need" to stay the way it was, either.

If you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to agree to like it. What RinchanNau and rappa are saying is that the job works fine. There's nothing wrong with it. Some people just don't enjoy it, others do, but there's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't "need" to change.

[TiaHeart]

BRD was a niche filler for all those who didn't enjoy other classes for reasons of
- cast times
- movement freedom
- tight rotation setups
-> playing out slow and somewhat tedious, doing the same over n over n over, just because its "the best way to go".
They broke every single aspect of what made the brd niche, casualpleasing, reaching a crowd other classes didnt. All im sayin- since this is an angry bard thread. Bad move. Why am i saying it? To voice my opinion in hopes of seeing changes that actually bring back the benefits listed above, because imho a god darn rangertype SHOULD play fast, spontaneous, free roamin etc. And weaker than melee or glasscanons/casts but still noticeable as a DD. Do i believe SE, like many devs would ever backpaddle "just" because a proportion of gamers liked stuff the way it was? Ha, ney. Its a rant thread called angry bards, and OP even asked you peeps that are pointing out the obvious "bard can still clear this easy game, git gud" to not post yo.

[TiaHeart]

Arguing from "need" is always a bit iffy.

Agree and disagree 50/50. The overall statement will probably be true, but there definitely are exceptions.

They don't need to do pretty much anything

Yes, they actually do. From a business perspective. If they dont care to do proper business, you are right.

You could use that same argument against literally everything in the expansion

I cant, not while sounding at least somewhat reasonable to followers. I challenge changes that imho are bad, do not comment on those I dont care for and applaud for those i like. You do the same i assume

We don't need new zones, flying, enochian, botd, etc.

Not any of the points isolated, but overall yes. If you push an "expansion" like HW and go further to expect making money/ profit of it without adding anything at all, people might sue for fraud and win the case lol or ignore your product letting you iron out the investments and costs from your personal wallet at least

But it's the way they wanted to go with it

I guess so

It didn't "need" to stay the way it was, either.

No it didn't. I would actually be disappointed if everything but one thing/class received changes. However i was expecting more gains less losses regarding my own preferances and those of fellow brd people.

But for whatever you say about "need" being iffy, i will come back as follows:
In my oppinion it does not take a rocksolid reason to ADD stuff (pushing an expansion or keeping/increasing subs/customers aside), but if you plan to REMOVE something you better come up with one
(which i just happen to feel they did more to brd than actually add something. This is obviously just an oppinion. Im okay with people saying brd is now more fun to them as ever before. Im less okay with people dismissing different oppinions per se by dealwithit or gitgud or parser. Those terms arent reasonable arguments to me. They are for the ones to lazy to apply logic)

If you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to agree to like it.

I pretty much dont need to do anything. I guess. But i still say what i expect to get for my money D: feedback is always positive as long as it includes arguments.

What RinchanNau and rappa are saying is that the job works fine. There's nothing wrong with it. Some people just don't enjoy it, others do, but there's nothing wrong with it.

My POV: if you change something and less people end up liking it than before, you did bad. Doing bad equals wrong. Am i saying thats how it definitely is backing it up with statistics? No, because I cant. Do i feel thats the way it is? Yes. I may be wrong. Im aware of that.

It doesn't "need" to change.

You are right, it doesnt need to. I still hope for it ^^
The fact they rework brd every patch since hw launch keeps my hopes up, the way HOW they rework it doesnt.
[But yeah, i also think SE isnt at the same prime as square was with the seiken densetsu franchise or ff1-10. Or enix used to be at the same time with their products. So what D: ]

[Sirabit]

When I count the DPS classes in Idyllshire, it is indeed not a lot of Bards in the whole town, compare to what is used to be in the main hubs.

Now #1 is Dragoons, #2 Monks...

Anyone shares the same observation with me?

[rappa]

When I count the DPS classes in Idyllshire, it is indeed not a lot of Bards in the whole town, compare to what is used to be in the main hubs.

Now #1 is Dragoons, #2 Monks...

Anyone shares the same observation with me?

Bandwagon. If a job is to hard to play or need more focus to be played. Then they play others.

[TiaHeart]

Bandwagon. If a job is to hard to play or need more focus to be played. Then they play others.

Frankly, people like you bore me to death. Can you ever pick up a single argument via quote and say it doesnt sound reasonable? You jump into the same discussion 10 times saying "i feel different". Thats ok, you are entitled your oppinion just like evebody else is. But pls 15 posts with 2 arguments? You are a sheep, meh meh meh *post yoshi git gud pic here*

- brds used to not 1 2 3 and could at the expanse of 10 to 20 dps, not 300 for "imperfect rotation" as long as they were fast, hit procs, multidotted, used a reasonable aoe rotation (again, procs/free shots) They cant no more. Aoe rotation doesnt exist. 50 aoe is uhm dead, and 45 only has a point if your party doesnt exceed acc cap for the content (read: high tier raid). They had 3 aoe skills to work with, now its 1. They had 2 dots to keep alive on several targets with single refreshes, now its 1 target 2 dots, 1 refresh skill. Added depth? My ass. My ass

- there used to be 3 types of dd on 6 jobs: melee(3), ranged(1), cast(2). They brought an "expansion" and its 2 types after, with 7 jobs instead of 6. Melee(3) and cast(2)[hybrids(2)] Added stuff? Hahaha

[rappa]

Do you mean "faceroll" niche?

Blm are punished due lost enochian
Dragoon with jumps and lost BotD.
Monk with stacks
Smn with Aetherflows

Why would be the bard the only one is not punished?
Now, Bards need to think the priority of the skills, reapply dots at same time with Iron Jaws, buff administration, delaying Empyreal is a lost of dps, not using Rain of death against 2 or more targets, not multidotting 2 or 3 targets with they are not killed before dots go down, etc.

We lost our mobility (ha!) in pursuit of more damage.

You could be angry with changes, me as raider i am glad. Mistakes are more punishables in HW than 2.0, so i have to focus in my gameplay than before. In 2.0 you lost one tick from dots and who cares, you reapply again. In 3.0, fail to use Iron jaws and you will waste 3 gcd to do it.

But hey! you need more attention on your game than pressing heavy shot and bloodletter spam. I don't like it! Go back!!! I am an angry bard!!!

[RiceisNice]

Why would be the bard the only one is not punished?
Now, Bards need to think the priority of the skills, reapply dots at same time with Iron Jaws, buff administration, delaying Empyreal is a lost of dps, not using Rain of death against 2 or more targets, not multidotting 2 or 3 targets with they are not killed before dots go down, etc.

If you're going to make something difficult, at least make it sound difficult/interesting. And especially when the bolded part is more often than out, out of your control especially with SS procs and SS refresh

[Moomba33]

I'd say I'm more disappointed than angry.
I feel like with Heavensward Bard just got slower and clunkier. I don't think any of the new abilities are particularly fun or interesting.
I also feel like SE didn't put much effort into designing the Bard abilities for Heavensward and simply copied over their design for MCH.

If Bard had been designed like this from the beginning, say WM was the 30 ability and there weren't issues with proc timing, then I probably wouldn't be complaining. It's just unpleasant losing the playstyle I enjoyed for two years.

I don't expect SE to change things now. Bard is functional and not being excluded from content. I suspect the cast times were purposefully added by SE because they felt the ranged physical dps were getting off too easily with having less to worry about than other classes in terms of positioning and timing.
Perhaps it wasn't fair, but I enjoyed 2.0 Bard while it lasted.