Anyone feel nostalgic for larger scale raid?

[skyfox]

I've been a big fan of MMPoG for long time ever since Everquest comes out. WoW is the only game that I do not have experience with end game. I was too addicted to FF11 and SWTOR by then. But for every game I played, I never had MMPoG has restriction on larger scale raid.

I am getting slightly bored with FF14. I was expecting larger scale raid (not just 8 but more like 24+ man raid. Well I know there is 24 man one but we can't do it as FC and I am getting sick of troll and all the newbie wasting my time. I just don't feel like I achieve anything as a team but feel lucky I cleared with bunch of random people.

Anyone missing the old style raid with just FC members?

[Chiramu]

So in raid you can have a whole group of people who are not doing anything and getting credit for participation . That sounds like FATE grinding.

[Mikedizzy]

I don't know about the "average FC" but in my FC we could never do a 24 man Raid because we never have that many Raid players on at the times most of us play. I like the harder content being the 8 man although one day I hope they will up it to 10...I think that would be just right. 24 is just a cluster "F" and would be a nightmare...even if they are all FC members or static members. Just my thoughts.

[Nadirah]

I don't know about the "average FC" but in my FC we could never do a 24 man Raid because we never have that many Raid players on at the times most of us play. I like the harder content being the 8 man although one day I hope they will up it to 10...I think that would be just right. 24 is just a cluster "F" and would be a nightmare...even if they are all FC members or static members. Just my thoughts.

Pretty much this.

In fact, we tried to get an 8 player static started. There's an incredibly vocal "raid hater" segment here.

[Ryel]

I miss larger raid content from old school MMOs as well, they give more reasons and opportunities to run things together as an FC and aren't nearly as restrictive or as community damaging as the 8 man based content we have now.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

Yes, yes I do. 100%. Maybe 24 might be a bit too much if not a lot of people are online, but 18, like in FFXI, is a sweet spot imo. Eh even if 18 ppl weren't online, there was no restriction on how many people were online at the time to do content, you just waited for them to arrive and they could join later. Of course, most of the content was either open world or instanced mini worlds/zones like Abyssea or Dynamis, not necessarily ALL linear raids with a time limit. You could complete stuff albeit a bit harder but still complete even if you didn't have a full alliance. There was more freedom and linkshells had a real purpose.

[Noxifer]

Well I know there is 24 man one but we can't do it as FC

You can do it as an FC. Once you've filled up the three teams, one team leader prods the other two team leaders and asks them to join an alliance party. Once you have your three parties linked, you can queue up for the 24-man dungeon and go in together =)

[Gamer3427]

While I like the idea of larger more cooperative raids, that does lock quite a few of us out if you make it mandatory to have a full group going in, especially with just FC members. Right now my FC is very small, and we couldn't even form a full static from JUST FC members. The one I left to form my current one also had maybe 5-10 players that would get on consistently within a 24 hour span, (and even then not at the same time), despite having 40 or 50 members. Even in larger FCs that have hundreds of members, I find it unlikely that even half of them would be ready for raid level content, and of those, how many would be able to get on at the same time as the rest consistently enough to form a full static for your 24+ player FC raids? If they added content like what you're suggesting, then that would lock a great many players out of it just because they would rather be in smaller FCs composed of just their friends, or where they have some say in FC matters, rather than the main 2 or 3 FCs per server that have enough members to make that realistically viable. The number of players taking on raid level content is already an incredibly low percentage, and making that content accessible to only a small portion of those people is certainly not the way to go.......

[Noxifer]

While I like the idea of larger more cooperative raids, that does lock quite a few of us out if you make it mandatory to have a full group going in, especially with just FC members.

Correct me if I'm wrong -- this is my first MMO, so I only have hearsay to go by -- but with larger-scale raid teams, like 25+ raiders, since each person is responsible for a smaller percentage of the team's performance, it actually means the static is a lot less limited. Sure, the better you know how to work together, the better your team will handle the encounters, but it doesn't really matter nearly as much if you bring five BLMs, two DRG and one MCH, or if you bring an even amount of all DPS classes. And it doesn't necessarily have to be the same players all the time, as long as those replaced don't mind not 'keeping up' and are willing to find another way to get through that encounter (if it's a gate for the next place you go into) before joining in again. The core would most likely remain the same, but the rest could probably be filled from those half-serious raiders in the FC or even from PF if necessary.

[Gamer3427]

Words.

Maybe, but with as many wipes as there are in the Crystal Tower trilogy of raids, even when you go in with a full party and do your part absolutely correctly, it's scaled so that if even half the over all group isn't up to par, (with the bar obviously being pretty low for those three as is), then you will be struggling to clear it. If it's content designed around having to go in as a pre-formed group as the OP is suggesting though, then it would also be scaled around the idea of "cooperating" with the other members enough that PF members, non-raiders, or people unfamiliar with the content would begin causing issues in even small numbers.....

Not to mention the fact that trying to PF a group for anything post the first month of it being out is very difficult at times, much less if you were trying to form a full alliance with it. I actually checked the PF on my server during prime time a couple of days ago, and the only ones there were a couple of Ravana EX farms, (both with half a party's worth of members), someone using it as a "/tell and make me offer to buy item X" party, and one FATE farming group. And this was during prime time. I went into the PF with some friends a few weeks ago to try and do a Garuda EX run, during the time we normally play, (slightly later than prime time), and we sat there for about an hour with no one joining even when using tells to advertise it. Again, particularly with small groups of players such as my FC, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to get a full PF group for a pre-formed 24 player raid after all the more "hardcore" players are through with it. And even if we could, chances are it'll be the same as going into the DF anyhow in terms of players cooperating, with the only difference being that it would take longer to set up and get going.....

Then comes the issue of difficulty. Either it's as difficult as Alexander Savage and you're forced to use a full static to clear it, or it's easy and becomes as dead as the Crystal Tower trilogy is right now after the gear in it stops being relevant, but with the added restriction of being locked behind needing pre-formed alliances. Anything in the middle will make it too much trouble for 90% of the players to deal with, while making it so that the other 10% will either give up on bad PF groups, or will just be using a full static anyhow. There's no middle ground here that would make it both accessible to players outside of large free companies, and make it difficult enough that even partial statics will be needed.....

Don't get me wrong here. I'm all for larger scale content, and when I saw that there was going to be a new 24 player raid in 3.1, I was particularly excited. I'm just saying that gating more such content behind the restriction of pre-formed parties will just make it so that the majority of players at that point in the game's content can't access it in general, even using the PF. As is, there's nothing stopping players from forming statics on their own for 24 player content, aside from the players themselves, but making it mandatory for some content isn't the way to go.....

I'm sorry if I became repetitive in what I'm saying, or didn't convey my point as well as I intended. It's late here and I'm headed to bed soon, so I'll just blame the lack of sleep......