I don't understand the power of the Dark Knights

[Cilia]

Dark Knights derive their power from (feelings of) salt.

Not entirely. The power of darkness responds to a desire - any true, heartfelt desire. During the DRK 58 quest, Rielle and the Moggles- er, the Pomguard give Sidurgu crap over using his duty as an excuse to indulge in vengeance, and that the power of darkness responds to love just as readily as hate. To use it to its fullest extent, a Dark Knight must accept their selfish desires - but that doesn't necessarily mean it's evil or wrong, just that it's what the Dark Knight wants, not what s/he feels obligated or forced into.

(If this was a jest, I apologize for taking it in earnest.)

Anyway, no, your shadow is not "evil you" or a photo-negative of your normal self. It's you, literally, you, just without society to keep your impulses, desires, and emotions restrained. For instance, while the Warrior of Light is considerably more irritable and less willing to put up with other peoples' shit, s/he still does everything s/he normally would during the 30-50 line. "Fray" just gives you a little push into learning how to use the power of darkness, and the rest is you. From slaughtering Temple Knights to save a maid, to getting annoyed with "Fray" for making you do a largely meaningless task, to slaughtering Amalj'aa for a sporting battle with the excuse of saving fools who could have saved themselves, to chewing out a merchant for being a massive ingrate, to beating up the Whitebrim soldiers to save yourself... those are all things you, the Warrior of Light, actually want.

But, because you're expected to be the calm, confident, selfless, stoic badass you're known for being, you can't actually express those feelings in polite society. Deep down you're suffering, and unsure of yourself, and angry and resentful over everything that's happened despite your best efforts. Nobody actually cares about that, though, and it's something you're very, very angry about. At the same time, your shadow is also your sorrow and despair. "Fray" is everything you are, but deny for whatever reason.

So again, "Fray" is not dark, evil, mean, jackass, or bad you. S/he isn't the other side of the coin. "Fray" is you, and you are "Fray."

[Kaiser-Ace]

So again, "Fray" is not dark, evil, mean, jackass, or bad you. S/he isn't the other side of the coin. "Fray" is you, and you are "Fray."

"I am thou, thou are I, look in thy heart, open the door and call forth what is within."

[MiniPrinny]

I figured I'd toss in something that happens very late into the entire story of being a Dark Knight, but I'll also put in a spoiler, just so those who are leveling aren't spoiled.

Very late in the Dark Knight story line, you seek out help understanding the power that the Warrior of Light and Sidurgu possess. At first, you go to the dragons of Anyx Trine, but they do not fully comprehend our abilities and instead suggest we speak with the moogles of Moghome. In the next quest, we do just that, and we get treated to something very interesting. Rielle gets "kidnapped" by the moogles to provoke Sidurgu and the Warrior of Light into fighting them, which is humorously pretty much Moggle Mog (Hard)'s first phase, complete with music. After you beat them senseless, they return Rielle, but also mention through song that our powers manifest from love. Sidurgu at first passes it off as nonsense, and Rielle calls him out on how he has always acted selfishly since she met him. You then get to hear him not only admit that Rielle is right, but also, later at the Forgotten Knight, you hear from him about why he became a Dark Knight: His entire tribe was slaughtered by the Ishgardians out of fear that they were a new type of dragon. Sidurgu however was saved when his mentor Dark Knight swooped in and rescued him. He then accepts that while he was seemingly embracing noble ideals afterwards, he was mostly fueled by a thirst for vengeance.

In the final quest of the storyline, you wrap things up nicely by slaying every one Countess Ystride throws at you, up to herself, who you and Sidurgu show mercy towards after beating her within an inch of her life. Sidurgu admits that while he wants to kill her, he won't, because she is Rielle's mother. As the three begins to walk away, the countess declares that she will never stop hunting Rielle, believing it to be the will of the Fury. Rielle, too disgusted to even see Ystride as her mother any more, prays for her and gives her the traditional last rights of Ishgard, giving Sidurgu permission to end Ystride's tragic life, which he does so, but begrudgingly.

Afterwards, in Ishgard, Rielle decides to stay with Sidurgu, on one condition, he has to be more honest with her. Rielle and the Warrior of Light share in laughter as Sidurgu reluctantly agrees. And then he says that he will stay in Ishgard as a defender of the people, a true one, much like his mentor. And then asks the Warrior of Light what they stand for, friends, Eorzea, yourself, or something else.

Now, the important details here, is that afterwards, you can ask Sidurgu about being a Dark Knight, and he gives you the standard shocked preface before explaining it to you. At the end of his explanation, he admits that he fears the moogles may have been onto something. When you look back at every single Dark Knight quest before Fray is bested, ultimately, you are still doing good deeds out of love for the land you live in. Fray doesn't like that you still, regardless of how irritated you are, do these things, and while under Fray's influence, you do the heroic deeds, but with great abandon, recklessly slaying your foes simply to bask in their fear and blood. However, upon learning that Fray is much more than Fray appears to be, you fight back, selflessly defending the now helpless soldiers of Whitebrim Front. The entire battle is very vague in what exactly is happening, but we can imply from Fray's dialogue as well Lord Drillemont's dialogue that what happened was very much real and that they truly did fight beside you to best your inner dark desires. Note that in the final quest with Fray, you are truly acting out of love for the country you live in, you stopped yourself from harming people who were truly innocent, who were worried for you, a hero who had saved them before. We end up seeing similar themes with Sidurgu. We watch as he is a bloodthirsty killer, acting upon his desires under the pretense of a noble cause, much like the Warrior of Light did prior. And in the end, he ultimately realizes that his thirst for vengeance, his thirst for blood, was simply making yet more sad orphans like himself, and was hurting someone he very likely considers as an adopted child. Ultimately, Sidurgu doesn't wish to kill Ystride because he doesn't wish to inflict such a deep pain onto Rielle, a pain he is all too familiar with, and it is likely he wished to not kill Ystride out of love for Rielle and not a sense of mercy. This in turn explains why, in the post-quest dialogue, he mentions the moogles again, Sidurgu doesn't want to admit it, the Warrior of Light doesn't want to admit it, we the player base don't want to admit it, but a Dark Knight's power isn't from our darker desires, nor is it from some possessive spirit, but rather, it's simply from love.

TL;DR: Dark Knights are powered by love, not "darkness." It's why we are still the Warrior of Light in the end of it all.

[Sapphidia]

TL;DR: Dark Knights are powered by love, not "darkness." It's why we are still the Warrior of Light in the end of it all.

This cannot be overstated. Much as a lot of Dark Knights want to feel like their class is some kind of blacker-than-black jungian demon-communer who pulls their power from the untapped corners of the void, it seems their power is entirely introspective and born of good heartwarming intentions.

They're more paladinny than the most pure of paladins it seems... they just dress like Batman and have spell effects that scream more Dark Wizard than ultimate angelic warrior of pure loving light.

Sorry

[Dererk]

snip..

Lets not forget how satisfying it was to beat them around like a rag doll after all the bs they put us threw in The Churning Mists. Was a nice bonuse.

[Geist]

This cannot be overstated. Much as a lot of Dark Knights want to feel like their class is some kind of blacker-than-black jungian demon-communer who pulls their power from the untapped corners of the void, it seems their power is entirely introspective and born of good heartwarming intentions.

They're more paladinny than the most pure of paladins it seems... they just dress like Batman and have spell effects that scream more Dark Wizard than ultimate angelic warrior of pure loving light.

Sorry

Sorry about what? I'd rather thank everyone for their contribute to this thread, and the in-depth look at the already engrossing DRK storyline - one of the best FFXIV has sported so far.

Reprising the comics analogy, the Paladin's either a flying brick (minus the flying, at least until your choco's riding those aether currents) or a more down-to-earth loyal protector, while being generally a Friend to All Living Things. Think most Superman analogues or, even better, classic Captain America; he even has the shield.

The Warrior... well, the madder he gets, the stronger he gets. "Strongest one there is" and "smash" aren't too far removed for this one. :-)

The Dark Knight does show shades of Batman... if he was more inclined, say, towards Midnighter's methodology. Sidurgu's mentor even chose him in a guise reminiscent of Bruce Wayne taking in Dick Grayson.

But in the end, yes, they are doing it for the greater good. For love's sake. They're... Sailor Moon, just with a Bad Girl getup.
Or if you'd rather like, Saber Alter. Zero from Code Geass would also qualify (he's causing all that ruckus because VENGEANCE!, but in the end it's all about "I want to bring out a kinder, gentler world for my little sister" - aww, Lelouch, you big softie you).

As a parting gift, one of the best lines from Megatokyo, back when it was on a roll:

Ninja live by code of honor. Magical girl live by code of love. This lead to many disaster and much destruction of urban area. Honor much safer.

[Cilia]

Love is a facet of the power of darkness, but that's not all there is to it.

The moogles explain to Sidurgu that the power of darkness is fueled by love, and Rielle chews him out for using his duty as an excuse to indulge in his vengeance, but it seems to me more that Sidurgu was being dishonest with himself than running entirely on hate and rage. He stated his duty was why he fought, and beneath that was vengeance, but beneath that was his growing affection for Rielle he was denying to himself for fear of losing her. Thus, Sidurgu was unable to fight at full power because he was denying himself.

The power of darkness is, essentially, the power to wield your own heart as a weapon. The problem is that there is darkness in every heart ("We all have a little bit of void in us. But it's quite healthy.") and to use your heart as a weapon without losing yourself to your hidden desires you must know those hidden desires. In our case, it's freedom from Hydaelyn's yoke; in Sidurgu's case, it's that he wants to be loved and cared for, and wants to love and care for others in turn.

Dark Knights are neither guardians nor destroyers - they are both at the same time. Recognizing and accepting this is what gives you the power to use your heart as a weapon and wield the power of darkness to its fullest extent.

[Geist]

Dark Knights are neither guardians nor destroyers - they are both at the same time. Recognizing and accepting this is what gives you the power to use your heart as a weapon and wield the power of darkness to its fullest extent.

"We fight with the power of our hearts!"
(...that greatsword on our back does help quite a bit, of course)

[Sapphidia]

That's actually a much better way of looking at it I think, and it prompts the summary that the Dark Knight is fundamentally about Introspection and self.

Perhaps that's the -actual- contrast between Paladins and Dark Knights. Paladins embody unwavering wills, stoicism, being rigid in the face of adversity, generally acting like a defensive rock and tempering their own emotions. Dark Knights are the opposite - they embrace their feelings and emotions and bring their power from tapping into that reservoir that's a mix of darkness, love, excitement, desire, hatred and insecurity.

[Belhi]

I see what you did there. Heck, when I first saw the cutscene for Our Answer, I was floored by the similarities.

As others have said, the darkness isn't necessarily evil. It's not even necessarily bad. It is similarly linked toemotions that Warriors have in battle, but with one key difference. Warriors become so enraged in battle that they literally have to fight their emotions to keep from going uncontrollably berserk and becoming the monster they seek to destroy. Dark Knights' power doesn't just stem from the love and thrill of battle, it stems from their overall outlook on life - being tired of seeing others hurt but not being able to do anything about it, or conversely in our character's case, always being expected to do something about it. The desire to break free from the rules and just do what you FEEL is right, rather than what others tell you is right. They use this desire to literally manifest the power of their own darker emotions, but maintain control of them in service to the things they actually want to achieve. It's... weird. But it works.


Put another, still psychological way:
Id: Dark Knight's desire to do what they feel is right
Ego: Dark Knight
Superego: Expectations and roles placed on Dark Knight by society and themselves

The Dark Knight has to balance these, and literally draws power from the friction generated by being between the two. They're the hybrid car of tanks.

I got the impression the nature of the Inner Beast was more of a person's primal nature. Its not what a person represses but rather person's desires instinctively played out. It responds to danger and challenges but also can go all mother bear when things the person care for are threatened. Its like a wild animal. Not evil but instinctive.

The 50+ WAR story gets into this.