Job Uniquiness, how?

[TomCarroll]

How do you make a system where using a skill on a cross-class isnt as effective as the class its intended for but still make it worth your time?

Right on, man. There are two major issues that'll come up that everyone seems to be overlooking.

1. The strong desire to not be "cookie-cutter" is baseless. There will always be clear "bests" no matter what happens. Your class can't be too unique if everyone is building him the same.

2. As a result of needing all of these skills to be a viable contender in either endgame or whatever, you'll need to invest an ungodly amount of time ranking up as many other classes at it'll take you to develop your repertoire of abilities.

I like the idea of being able to take certain abilities, but the devs are going to end up alienating more people who can't invest the same time as the hardcore players. Right now, the push is for more subscribers, not to keep the stragglers from launch happy.

[Heartfire]

I stopped posting on this thread because I could see that it was just going to upset me. I try not to argue with people who are illogical, because logic is the only thing I argue with. I can't just cross-class an ability to not make a decent argument.

Kimahri is spot-on. That's exactly what is going to happen, and that is the exact opposite of "customization." If you are too blinded by the sheer greed of "I want to be good at everything at the same time," then you should go pick up a solo game.

I understand the desire for the game to be different. I'm not saying it has to be exactly the same. But what I am saying is that our current system is absolute crap, and it needs to be fixed. If it wasn't so terrible, then they wouldn't be working on over-hauling the system.

Being unique means specializing into something. There are plenty of roles, and there are plenty of ways to fulfill each role. I know you hate seeing FFXI as a reference, but it was SE's successful MMO, and it is a perfect example of my point. Each class had a role, and each one performed their role in ways that were unique to their class. Find a play style you like, and go with it. Everything you posted, about "an axe-man that can cast debuffs or offensive spells" is already a class. It's called a Dark Knight. Play a Final Fantasy game, why don'tcha?

I could go on... But I think I've made my point here. The system we have now will only lead to every one being exactly the same. It breaks the game to have a Gladiator cast Shadowsear at rank one.... I think the only reason you think it is good is because you want to have your character perform just as well as an entire group of people with dedicated roles. That's as childish as it is frustrating.

[Choc]

I stopped posting on this thread because I could see that it was just going to upset me. I try not to argue with people who are illogical, because logic is the only thing I argue with. I can't just cross-class an ability to not make a decent argument.

Kimahri is spot-on. That's exactly what is going to happen, and that is the exact opposite of "customization." If you are too blinded by the sheer greed of "I want to be good at everything at the same time," then you should go pick up a solo game.

I understand the desire for the game to be different. I'm not saying it has to be exactly the same. But what I am saying is that our current system is absolute crap, and it needs to be fixed. If it wasn't so terrible, then they wouldn't be working on over-hauling the system.

Being unique means specializing into something. There are plenty of roles, and there are plenty of ways to fulfill each role. I know you hate seeing FFXI as a reference, but it was SE's successful MMO, and it is a perfect example of my point. Each class had a role, and each one performed their role in ways that were unique to their class. Find a play style you like, and go with it. Everything you posted, about "an axe-man that can cast debuffs or offensive spells" is already a class. It's called a Dark Knight. Play a Final Fantasy game, why don'tcha?

I could go on... But I think I've made my point here. The system we have now will only lead to every one being exactly the same. It breaks the game to have a Gladiator cast Shadowsear at rank one.... I think the only reason you think it is good is because you want to have your character perform just as well as an entire group of people with dedicated roles. That's as childish as it is frustrating.

I agree and wish more people felt the same. Usually it comes down to people wanting to be able to solo more effectivley or not feel gimped in any aspect of the game which is rather absurd in an mmo.

You cant expect every class to be able to heal effectivley, not ever class should have the insane damage or damage resistance. For party based combat to work you need that specific role which is oddly what people want to do away with.

If you want to be a warrior that can cast spells efficiently you better be ready to sacrifice something in return, thats what balancing is, this idea that everyone has of being able to equip any skill on any class and have it be useful just doesnt work.

Although your example doesnt work too well, shadowsear is class specific, I understand what your saying though lol.

[Kimahri]

Kimahri is spot-on. That's exactly what is going to happen, and that is the exact opposite of "customization." If you are too blinded by the sheer greed of "I want to be good at everything at the same time," then you should go pick up a solo game.

That...........Now that.............That brought a tear to me eye.

And, Choc.....You da man!

[Oren]

I stopped posting on this thread because I could see that it was just going to upset me. I try not to argue with people who are illogical, because logic is the only thing I argue with. I can't just cross-class an ability to not make a decent argument.

Kimahri is spot-on. That's exactly what is going to happen, and that is the exact opposite of "customization." If you are too blinded by the sheer greed of "I want to be good at everything at the same time," then you should go pick up a solo game.

I understand the desire for the game to be different. I'm not saying it has to be exactly the same. But what I am saying is that our current system is absolute crap, and it needs to be fixed. If it wasn't so terrible, then they wouldn't be working on over-hauling the system.

Being unique means specializing into something. There are plenty of roles, and there are plenty of ways to fulfill each role. I know you hate seeing FFXI as a reference, but it was SE's successful MMO, and it is a perfect example of my point. Each class had a role, and each one performed their role in ways that were unique to their class. Find a play style you like, and go with it. Everything you posted, about "an axe-man that can cast debuffs or offensive spells" is already a class. It's called a Dark Knight. Play a Final Fantasy game, why don'tcha?

I could go on... But I think I've made my point here. The system we have now will only lead to every one being exactly the same. It breaks the game to have a Gladiator cast Shadowsear at rank one.... I think the only reason you think it is good is because you want to have your character perform just as well as an entire group of people with dedicated roles. That's as childish as it is frustrating.

Totally agree.

[Kiroh]

Being able to do anything on any class:

Unique compared to FFXI, yes.

Unique compared to EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN EORZEA, no.

I don't understand how anyone could think that every player, regardless of their current class, being able to use every non-class specific skill in the game would be unique. If I can DD and heal at the same time, why not DD nuke and heal at the same time? Heck, why not DD, tank, nuke and heal at the same time? And then you end up with nothing but a homogenized end game super class.

How special, you get to be the same as everyone else, grats!

[Choc]

Being able to do anything on any class:

Unique compared to FFXI, yes.

Unique compared to EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN EORZEA, no.

I don't understand how anyone could think that every player, regardless of their current class, being able to use every non-class specific skill in the game would be unique. If I can DD and heal at the same time, why not DD nuke and heal at the same time? Heck, why not DD, tank, nuke and heal at the same time? And then you end up with nothing but a homogenized end game super class.

How special, you get to be the same as everyone else, grats!

you forgot buff, debuff and crowd control, gotta multitask to the fullest extent.

[Kimahri]

you forgot buff, debuff and crowd control, gotta multitask to the fullest extent.

Would kiting be considered crowd control? Haha!