Element system needs changes?

[BloodPact]

Currently it looks like the element system takes no real role in this game... A Final Fantasy game... (Unless I\\'m wrong)
I was thinking of how they could change it and wound up possibly fixing this crafted gear dilemma in the process.


First off, all/most enemies and bosses have elemental aspection. Some can be drastic like Shiva being all about Ice, and some like Alexander being more neutral overall. Elements effect their damage on certain skills and overall defense.
Elements have different effects depending on the player\\'s class role.
--Tanks get defensive bonuses/deficiencies from elemental attacks that they are aspected to.
--Healers get healing bonuses/deficiencies to players with elemental aspections, depending on the healer\\'s element.
--DPS get damage bonuses/deficiencies to enemies with elemental aspections.

They'd have to rework the entire battle system as it was designed to not take elemental resistance into consideration. Although we have elemental spells and abilities and resistances, you could basically lump all of that into "magical" and it wouldn't make a difference.

This is way past repair because, for example, Thaumaturge has exclusive access to Thunder, Fire and Ice magics while Conjurer has them for Wind, Water and Earth. Any fight designed with an advantage of a single element over the other is going to end up hurting one or more classes/jobs. This is part of the core of the current battle system and you can be certain they'll never go as deep as they'd need to go in order to rightfully address this.

This is not necessarily bad. Just like you've seen threads here about the cries of Paladins over the advantages of Dark Knight in Gordias, they same problem would pop up if we had elemental magic bonuses in fights. As with a lot of things in this game, it does make things a bit dull, but in the end, looking at the big picture, it's a necessary evil to keep the majority happy.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I'm sure someone mentioned this but the key to this is materia guys. Put on a Fire Materia and now my attacks are doing Fire DMG. The Materia system has such wasted potential and could solve a lot of issues. It bugs me everyday the Dev Team doesn't take a gamble and plays it very safe.

Ok, but then what if you go do a raid where fire damage is not viable? Remember, removing materia from your gear destroys said materia, so we can't swap materia as much as we'd like. And I really don't want to be carrying gear with different materia builds in case I "may need it later"

[FallenArisen0990]

Ok, but then what if you go do a raid where fire damage is not viable? Remember, removing materia from your gear destroys said materia, so we can't swap materia as much as we'd like. And I really don't want to be carrying gear with different materia builds in case I "may need it later"

They could do like a page similar to the Zodiac Quest that you can take the materia out and replace it and then reapply the page. Or better yet, they could add in elemental potions.

You use said Potion and you gain that affinity for like 10 or 5 mins. With BLM and WHM, let's say you use Fire Potion, BLM will have no affect or "revert" it's element. For WHM, same thing, no effect. And for Melee/Range, they get a boost in dmg to anything weak to fire and vice-versa if something is resistance to fire. But let's say a Blizzard Potion, Fire and Blizzard now switch properties plus an additional boost in dmg to Freeze (Same as before, Freeze and Flare switch properties). Same thing for a Thunder Potion, Thunder and Fire switch properties (with Flare turning into Burst). For WHMs and other Healers, Light Potion boosts Healing Potency as well as increase Holy dmg. Using either a Stone or Aero potion, turns Holy into Quake and Tornado respectively.

As for space, SE could take the slots from Key Items (honestly, who will have 75 key items....) and make them exclusive to the potions. It doesn't have to be potions tho, it could be "The Soul of Fire" or something lol.

[Sandpark]

So before I go into Frozen Content, I wear my ice resistance gear and switch to my fire damage gear. Then my gameplay is EXACTLY THE SAME AS NOW except I am carrying around super specialized gear/hotbars that only work for some content. Oh no, the next boss is a fire boss! Now I have to equip my fire resistance gear and my ice hotbar! Then play the game EXACTLY THE SAME AS NOW except I have blue glow effects instead of red.

That's some depth we've added here.

Would a element system be more task or data intensive? Yes.
Would a element system be a well received system for all players? No, as this thread shows.

Would it add depth or would gameplay be the same as now as you say?
Well depth in this case is requiring thought, preparation, and thoughtful use.

A fireman wears fire resistance gear when entering burning buildings and water/chemicals that are designed to put fires out or control them.
If he wore a gasoline soaked suit or used gasoline to put out fires, he is less likely to survive.
He has to decide where is the best place to keep the fire under control.

Is he a genious? Who knows, but he did get some schooling on how to maximize his potential in situations.
I am sure if he could wear a scuba diving set and put out fires with peanut butter in all circumstances, he would do it because it is easier.
But nature doesn't work like that, it is not designed to work like clockwork and obey man.

It didn't work 'beautifully' in XI (though it could have). All that actually happened was for some reason almost all mobs were weak to thunder and/ or blizzard, which worked out well for BLMs because those were the 2 strongest elements anyway (I think in the past few years they normalized things though). Melee just used the water/ ice skillchains while leveling, and then the light or dark skillchains after 75. For skillchains it was a bit more interesting. For casting, and I have played BLM heavily in both games, it was no more interesting. Really XIV is more interesting for BLM endgame because you do a lot more than concentrate madly at the screen waiting for the boss to do something that you need to stun immediately. On the damage side, level 60 BLM is way more interesting than BLM was in XI. Sure you had a ton more spells, but you'd never use most of them and mostly just sat around casting the same spell forever or waiting to stun (or mass sleep things in dynamis).

In any case, they're vastly different games and without some sort of toggle to just change fire spells into whatever other element for the exact same effect (and what would be the point in that?) BLM would be neutered by an elemental resist system. If it wasn't then the system would be too mild to matter (or everything is weak/neutral to fire or extremely weak to ice).

Now you make a point here. It could have worked out beautifully, but they homgenized characteristics of enemies too much and made certain skillchains/magic burst more better in most situations, it was poorly tuned on the global scale.

Most modern mmos are trying to make you focus more on what's happening on the screen versus watching ui/menus to respond to what you see on the fly.

That is where the action mmo is headed, and what they are getting famous for.Maybe XI endgame mage was heavily tuned towards stunning, sleeping, or 1-4 spells but that was design oversight in global properties, not a flaw in the mechanics. Skillchains and bursting required more party synergy and thoughtful cast had the game been tuned right.

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Element
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Weather
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Skillchains
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Burst
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Role_of_the_Elements

Square already has an idea how to do elemental stuff. They tied the elements together in crafting, battle, enemies, and the environment.
Was it perfect? By all means no. But the groundwork is layed if they wanted to bring it here and make it better in this game, to fix it's flaws.

Can it add tedium or extra studying? Yeah.

Does it add depth, complexity, or meta? You bet your bottom.

Probably won't happen though because most people playing this game seem to want things straightforward and strictly respectful of their time rather than delving into systems that complicate things.

[Einheri]

Complicating things for the sake of having complicated systems doesn't make a better system.

[Sandpark]

Complicating things for the sake of having complicated systems doesn't make a better system.

Oh I agree here, which is why I pointed out that if it did make it's way here(it won't), they need to refine it. I like my Mario games in short spurts with no extra thought. I like my rpgs rich and complex when done right.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Yeah, lets make the game more complex for no reason to make it complex adding worthless stats and bloating and using even more information when we are already strapped to it and make more classes useless in content.

No, to be honest this system we have is much better and simpler. It is straight to the point and honestly is a pretty good system. A elemental system just would not work for Final Fantasy 14. It does not have the data to support it and the data could be used for a lot of other cool systems to improve the game rather then pigeon-holing certain classes.

To be honest, I would remove the "Magic" and "Physical" defense tanking styles because as you can see already IT JUST DOESN'T work. People will flock to the best classes.

It worked in Everquest 2, because whilst monsters had an advantage and disadvantage in some cases and monsters took more damage to some attacks, the attacks that did special damage also did a lot of other things as well and all classes had their special things they could do. This game, DPS classes ARE JUST DPS. Nothing else.

Necromancers for example could melt away disease resistance so their disease damage did a lot more. So even if the monster had high disease resistance he could melt it away. He also could rez in combat-had lifetaps and could heal the tank in a pinch. Just a ton of utility to the class. They could also "Lifeburn" which constantly killed them for tons of damage. So much fun to a class, and very complex as well.

It worked in Everquest 2 because DPS classes were more then just DPS.

Changes:
Dungeons would have to be 6 people instead of 4. Raids should be 24 from 8.
Support should become a role.
Classes need rebalanced.
GCD needs removed or changed to 1.5 from 2.5.
More skills added to the game. Traits added to the game.
There has to be ways of making monsters take more damage from certain spells.
Thousands of items/Materia would need to be added.

[FallenArisen0990]

Te-

-xt

I must be playing a beta version of the game because I could mindlessly faceroll like 90% of the content the game has to offer.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I must be playing a beta version of the game because I could mindlessly faceroll like 90% of the content the game has to offer.

Like FFXIV? Level 1-50 and leveling 1-60 and doing every dungeon except coils and such was kind of faceroll and easy. Even pre-nerf steps of faith wasn't that hard. All it required was people paying attention and playing their class.

[Hix]

If a Fire Mage can use debuffs to remove Fire Resistance and do the same amount of damage as a Frost Mage, then what was the point of the elemental system again?