I am officially dreading leveling Bard and Mechanist post-50.

[Eidolon]

So, as I've leveled a number of jobs to 60 (2 healers on my alt, working on 3rd tank on my main, and 2 dps done so far), I've come to a slow realization.

There is nothing more that I hate to see in a party than the sign of Bard and Mechanist. Namely, I hate to see two of them in any 4-man content I'm doing.

Whenever I see two of these jobs at the same time, I basically know that I'm going to have to resign myself to lower DPS, longer kills, etc. than if someone of similar gear levels were in their spot.


Example?

We ran The Aery today with a BRD/MCH Combo. Every boss saw me running out of TP from how long they were taking. When I asked a friend how the damage looked, I was told that I was doing the highest DPS.

As a paladin. In Sword Oath.

Now - before I get hate-flammed for disliking BRD/MCH's, let me make it clear -

I love them both. I think they're great support jobs. But when I get two of them in my party, it's a dreadful ordeal because I know how much longer it's going to take with them two of them in there. And that's a little bit saddening in and of itself.

I hope in the future, that 4-man content can be designed so that the 4th slot of a party is a Support/DPS role (Basically, a DPS can fill the slot, but a Support like Bard/Mechanist can fill the spot too) so that players don't get stuck wtih two of these if they want to use the duty finder. That, or make 5-man content with Bard/Mechanist being a 5th slot instead of 4 - a model used by RIFT wherein I played a Bard/Support and could freely switch between being Support or DPS in the game.

Anyways, hopefully no one takes too much offense to this. xD Personal preference and opinion I suppose, and hopefully it doesn't' come off as overly whiny or anything. I don't hate any of the players who are leveling their Bard/Mechanists, but heavens know I'm getting drained with the length of dungeons. And I fear it'll be just as bad when I want to level them, too.

Edit: So much derp spelling: Paaldin :O What'saPaaldin?
o: So much...

[MilesSaintboroguh]

You had lously MCHs and BRDs then. Ones who know how to optimize their output and have good rotations will keep up in a lot of stuff. I leveled MCH to 60 and my time doing content with other MCHs or BRDs weren't any slower or faster than usual. The two classes gotten a buff and if people are still doing poor DPS with them, then either they can't play the classes properly or they have terrible gear.

[Ronove]

I'm guessing they were just terrible MCHs/BRDs.

[Eidolon]

I'm guessing they were just terrible MCHs/BRDs.

Honestly, I respect your thoughts from the two of you on this - but I think it's moreso a limitation of the job. I have a hard time believing -everyone- in DF is just aweful at MCH/BRD. But I guess I won't know for sure until I've gotten to level the jobs myself and see how they play (I tend to do decent damage and have raided as BRD, so I guess I'm curious to see how MCH and BRD play out in post-50 content)

but as stated, it just feels dreadful because these two jobs already have a lower DPS ceiling than the other jobs to compensate for being support, which means that - as you guys are saying - a lesser-played MCH/BRD will be felt so much worst because their DPS will be even lower.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

DF, that's your problem. You're not going to get the best players at all times in the DF. If you really really ran out of TP because it took that long, then you had bad MCH and BRD players on your team. Again, I leveled MCH to 60 and I can keep up in DPS with everyone else because I know how the job plays.

This is really no different from everyone who claimed dungeons took longer because there was a DRG or how a trial was going to be bad just because there was two SCHs back when 2.0 was new.

[Risvertasashi]

Person who leveled BRD to past 50 here!

If they were doing decent DPS at level 50, they'll do it at least as well post 50. This is coming from someone who hates WM.

DF is full of terrible DPS because this game doesn't let you do 80% of your DPS by hitting 1 button (a lot of games do...) and gear matters. A lot. Personally, I don't like WM because I figure, if I'm going to play a caster, might as well go for the big guns (And SMN gets some instacasts...). But there's plenty of DPS potential.

Now, that this game actually requires DPS jobs do a rotation does mean there are lots and lots of terrible DPS out there, yes even BLMs that people assume are making the run fast and every other job. That's another issue though...

[adn]

I have a hard time believing -everyone- in DF is just aweful

You should definitely believe it because it's the truth. Not everyone mind you but a very large majority of people in DF have no idea what they're doing. It's fine at this point in the content cycle where everybody's used to the content and overgeared, but DF is a 3-ring circus on patch days when people are doing new stuff.

[Aethaeryn]

There's a massive difference in damage output between good bards and machinists and mediocre/bad ones. I find myself sighing when I see two of them in the same dungeon too. But I feel the same way when I get two melee that don't aoe at all on groups of mobs.

Also, the number of people who play machinist completely wrong is just... I don't know. I had one last night that used a turret twice the entire dungeon. And if they don't use wildfire and cooldowns correctly, they're crippling the job. It's a lot worse than a dragoon that forgets to heavy thrust for periods of time, or a monk that doesn't use DK or apply dots. You'll also run into a lot of bards that don't use RoD on 2+ mobs, and that's just baffling to me.

Basically, I don't think the difference in damage at max potential is so large that dungeons will take significantly longer with brd+mch. People just seem to really struggle with playing those two jobs well for whatever reason.

[Misurugi]

i was dreading lvling mch myself then i i found my rotation as i got up there in the lvls got through a fractal with mch/brd combo in less then 20 minutes all them adds dropped fast... also very satisfying dealing 6k+ with wildfire.... had a 7k+ wildfire against opressor in alex floor 1 that was very satisfying... as the saying goes it's just a roll of the dice

[Stormfur]

I'm working on machinist right now. Easy to learn...difficult to master. I would imagine Bard is similar.