Lets nerf WAR :D

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

First of all I play all 3. And you are forgetting we get pacified, we have to manage our buffs/debuffs, Oh and Defiance DOES NOT Reduce damage taken, And our damage is nerfed 25%. In exchage we have more utility, but rather than nerf another class why don't we ask for more utility for existing classes. They already said they working on more skills.

Arguably, that pacification is worthless since it's not on nearly long enough to be detrimental to anything other than a parser number. You won't lose aggro and it's around 2 GCD impedance that you have to deal with and that's it. You're already anywhere from 125-300 dps above other tanks depending on your stance choice and that's being on the low side. Even in Savage content, healers will not remove your pacification as it's not enough of a detrimental effect to be worth removing (at least from what I see in every Savage clear video I've ever watched.)

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Warriors have it all and to bring drk and PLD to the same level of necessity is going to take a lot of work. I don't disagree with the OP.

I think the health of this game would benefit a lot from bringing classes that don't work perfectly (Pld/Drk) to a Higher, better functioning level as opposed to bringing down something that's been well designed (War).

The thing is: If they nerf Warrior to make the decision on which tank to bring less black and white without improving the aspects of Pld/Drk that people have issues with, one problem will be fixed but we'll still be left asking for adjustments to things like Clemency, Reprisal etc.

[Snowy_Mist]

Leveling a Paladin and doing more than just dungeon content is what it will take for other tank jobs to understand what we're working with...I believe it also takes more than just doing Savage to understand how the job can't be played even if Paladins try..

Whats with the contradiction there?
Can't be played? why was there a Lucrezia's team for the first 2 floors?
If paladins managed to clear the 1-3 floors in the same week as the world 1st's, and the 4th was the only floor that was delayed then its the raid design of the last floor and not necessarily the entire class being total shit and unplayable, meaning most likely as yoshida said its probably just gonna end up being more phy dmg in the next set of floors change in plds utility and war wont get nerfs

Honestly I don't think paladin is as bad as people make it out to be, i actually found it was the easiest to stance dance and level via dungeons.
/rant

[RapBreon]

Arguably, that pacification is worthless since it's not on nearly long enough to be detrimental to anything other than a parser number. You won't lose aggro and it's around 2 GCD impedance that you have to deal with and that's it. You're already anywhere from 125-300 dps above other tanks depending on your stance choice and that's being on the low side. Even in Savage content, healers will not remove your pacification as it's not enough of a detrimental effect to be worth removing (at least from what I see in every Savage clear video I've ever watched.)

Why does my Warrior keep screaming for esuna/leeches then! Make him stop!

[karateorangutang]

Why does my Warrior keep screaming for esuna/leeches then! Make him stop!

CUZ WE NEED IT!

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

Whats with the contradiction there?
Can't be played? why was there a Lucrezia's team for the first 2 floors?
If paladins managed to clear the 1-3 floors in the same week as the world 1st's, and the 4th was the only floor that was delayed then its the raid design of the last floor and not necessarily the entire class being total shit and unplayable, meaning most likely as yoshida said its probably just gonna end up being more phy dmg in the next set of floors change in plds utility and war wont get nerfs
Honestly I don't think paladin is as bad as people make it out to be, i actually found it was the easiest to stance dance and level via dungeons.
/rant

Now that you point out how awkward my statement sounds I feel terrible. I need to "git gud" at saying what I need to say in more understandable terms. My intention with making the statement was to express that if you only do dungeons with a Paladin, you'll only see part of some issues; it's also the same with just doing fates until 60 and reading guides for how you can play Paladin "optimally" to do Savage. Obviously you'll need to do the 60 dungeons to obtain Esoterics so you could get a feel for Paladin as you build up to Savage. Wow, I don't think this attempt is going too well either in regards to clarification.....basically what I'm saying is it takes a couple of months doing all sorts of content (to include dungeons, Primal Ex's, and Savage,) to gauge where it's at in a general sense when compared to other tanks. The pacing of all of these encounters will give you the best idea of where Paladins stand....and most of what I'm reading isn't a lie. In dungeons you will clear 1-2 minutes faster at worst and 5-8 minutes faster at best with a Dark Knight and Warrior depending on party composition. In "end-game" content there will be noticeable advantages through easier and faster clears; you'll not only be able to get farther in phases because you can push easier from sheer dps but it will be more reliable because of what Dark Knight and Warrior currently bring to the entirety of all content.

In regards to the "can't be played" statement I meant I can't help burn down enemies with AoE. As another example, and this may actually wind up hurting my arguments in the future, I find that using bloodbath is useless on Paladin even with an entire STR right side loadout. I don't do enough damage to justify it taking up a slot so I used Mercy Stroke instead which is arguably just as useless unless you consider slightly higher dps on the ending of a pull. My burst damage is almost non-existent in comparison in either stance. Don't get me wrong, I'm okay with what I've said (barring my feelings that I can't do as good.) Right now it just takes longer to do content with a Paladin, which can't even make up for it's own shortcomings, to do not just end-game stuff but regular stuff too. I do believe we're okay on floors 1-3, assuming we're at low item level, if the group works great together. It's just that the hardest floor forces other players to help me along and that grabs me by the heart. I just hope none of this comes off as jealousy or anger, I'm truly okay with how the other tanks are doing, I just don't appreciate the skills I've been given in relation to current and future content.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

Why does my Warrior keep screaming for esuna/leeches then! Make him stop!

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd be begging for it too! However, in most cases whether it be a dungeon or end-game chances are healers will be occupied unless downtime can be planned for and acted upon. I just don't like how people attempt to say that's one of the weaknesses of Warrior. I know there's mental gymnastics required to play Warrior, pacification just isn't one of them.

[Tyrial]

So yeah. I will agree with you that they are an inherently selfish class, because I've met quite a few that are more interested in doing max DPS on their own with repeated BB combos than in keeping these debuffs up 100% of the time for their group.

This is a load of crap and holds no weight in the discussion. Any WAR doing this is garbage and should be replaced. Spamming nothing but BB is a DPS loss over rotating BB and SE and any half decent WAR knows this.

[Kaisersoke]

This is straight up ignorant.

ALL tanks go with STR accessories and go out fine.

and the extra boost to healing combined with the increased HP results in the same (actually, super slightly lower) overall damage mitigation than shield oath or grit. It's NOT a "healer buffer". It's an actual meat sponge to soak the extra 25% damage we warriors take over the other 2 tanks.

its incredibly ignorant to imply that im saying other tanks dont use str accessories, cause i know they do. what i actually SAID, read will you, is that warriors DO NOT NEED the buffer they get from defiance, and that it only shows in that they are literally trying to shed VIT at all costs and stay in deliverance as MUCH as possible. idiot...

[Kaisersoke]

You do know that every tank wears STR accessories, right?
The HP and heal increase on Defiance is the only way WAR has comparable eHP to both the PLD and DRK in their respective tanking stances. This has been established since 2.1.

yeah? you mean to tell me they established the math of dark knights several patches before they released? hmmm...