Lets nerf WAR :D

[Launched]

Savage was not intended to be cleared in i190, WAR made it possible.

Savage was not just being cleared because of WAR. It was because of both tanks maximising DPS over unnecessary mitigation, and both healers contributing DPS. The offtank DPS gap isn't as big as you think it is, you could easily do WAR MT (about as much DPS as DRK) and PLD OT, and end up with DPS barely behind DRK+WAR but with access to bigger cooldowns when the PLD needs to tank for a little while. Or if you had a NIN you could do DRK MT and PLD OT for the same result.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

For anyone that's curious about why Warrior has an endless well of TP in a single target encounter (training dummy), its because we have finisher attacks that don't cost TP but still use a GCD (Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone / Fell Cleave, Decimate). It's got nothing to do with Equilibrium.

On the issue of Warriors being too strong, they really aren't. The changes that need to be made should focus on the other tanks and not Warriors. The class plays extremely well and does what its supposed to do, tank and dish out sexy burst damage.

edit: 1000 character limit ya
Something as simple as making Sentinel/Bulwark a 120s cooldown (instead of 180s) would instantly transform Paladins into a stronger defensive alternative to Warriors while at the same time, not break the game or the meta. Removing the TP cost from Shield swipe would drastically increase Paladins TP sustainability. Reducing the Cooldown of Sheltron to 25 seconds would put it more in line with the up time of inner beast and would further increase Paladins effectiveness while not messing with warrior.

See what I'm getting at?

[Izsha]

You can get rid of Equalibrium tp boost when overpower costs tp for aoe management unless OP costs mp like pld and drk, we get an adult sized mp pool, and some way to refill it on demand.

Wars flood of tp is there because we need it for aoe threat while pld and drk have mp instead for it and ways to recoup it.

Or if you take away war tp then make sure to remove riot blade and drk riot clone giving mp so all tanks become incapable of aoe threat.

You can't kill Equalibrium because aoe threat across the board costs lots of a resource leaving war as the only tank unable to recoupe said resource. No.

[MeeYow]

You can get rid of Equalibrium tp boost when overpower costs tp for aoe management unless OP costs mp like pld and drk, we get an adult sized mp pool, and some way to refill it on demand.

Wars flood of tp is there because we need it for aoe threat while pld and drk have mp instead for it and ways to recoup it.

Or if you take away war tp then make sure to remove riot blade and drk riot clone giving mp so all tanks become incapable of aoe threat.

You can't kill Equalibrium because aoe threat across the board costs lots of a resource leaving war as the only tank unable to recoupe said resource. No.

WAR had superior AoE hate in 2.x, PLD reducieved no direct buffs to AoE hate.

WAR got an AoE DPS buff in exchange for lower hate, expecting emnity buffs to your already buffed DPS is absurd, just use steel cyclone.

Funnily enough this is one of the main areas under contention for PLD, that it's hate skill gains nothing but hate and a debuff the mobs are or become immune to.

[Airswimmer]

WAR had superior AoE hate in 2.x, PLD reduced no direct buffs to AoE hate.

Flash was buffed to generate more enmity.

[MeeYow]

Flash was buffed to generate more enmity.

But not more than a WAR AoE hate rotation.

Edit: and that was 2.x, my point is WAR was better at the end of 2.x AND received an AoE emnity buff through Eq TP between 2.x and 3.0 and PLD did not, so WAR which was better and is now EVEN better is in no position to complain.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Saying that "other tanks should be buffed to WAR DPS levels because nerfing WAR would make content unclearable" is an intensely telling statement on its own.

It may tell us that WAR is overpowered, because the content is not intended to be cleared.

Or it may tell us that DRK and/or PLD are underpowered, because the content is intended to be cleared.

[Izsha]

Pld: spam aoe till oom. Go back to single target. Single target regen mp for more aoe.
Drk: see pld
War: spam aoe till out of tp. Then go back to single targ....wait. I cant. I'm outta tp and my single target rotation doesn't regen any tp. I'm now dead weight

No. You can't kill Equalibrium unless you make overpower cost mp and give war a big boy mp pool and make maim regen mp. Ie: make it a clone of the other tanks who use 1 resource for ST, a dif one for AOE and the ST rotation regen AOE resource. War has 1 resource. They have to be able to get some back.

You don't like homogenezation? Then you have to accept that tanks do things differently. Especially when it comes to resource management.

[MeeYow]

Pld: spam aoe till oom. Go back to single target. Single target regen mp for more aoe.
Drk: see pld
War: spam aoe till out of tp. Then go back to single targ....wait. I cant. I'm outta tp and my single target rotation doesn't regen any tp. I'm now dead weight

No. You can't kill Equalibrium unless you make overpower cost mp and give war a big boy mp pool and make maim regen mp.

You don't like homogenezation? Then you have to accept that tanks do things differently. Especially when it comes to resource management.

A good WAR choses the number of overwhelms properly and gets both more emnity and DPS for X number of GCDs than DRK or lolPLD.

I love how you compared PLD to the other two and considered flash equal to the other despite Flash not dealing any damage whatsoever, yea sure by that assessment WAR is dead weight except oh wait still ahead of DRK and PLD didn't even contribute in the first place.

Cover everything or dont cover anything.

If your hate is low while you spam decimates in your DPS stance, use steel cyclone. No other class bar possibly DRG has the combined TP saving and regenerating abilities WAR has and WAR is not a DPS AND does NOT need as much AoE enmity generation as it has. This is why I am saying people have been spoilt, they expect to keep infinite single target TP so that they can not even have to bother using other parts of their kit, when you have good abilities like steel cyclone that other classes would kill for, and don't bother using them because your TP gain is OP, you are spoilt.

Also, insert homogenisation image macro from 3-4 pages ago. It's the numbers, not how the class plays. Classes can play differently fine, but when that results in one class being better than the others at almost everything and not notably worse than the best class in that area where it does have any drawbacks at all, changes are required. You can tweak numbers without having any effect on how the class plays.

[Izsha]

A good WAR choses the number of overwhelms properly and gets both more emnity and DPS for X number of GCDs than DRK or lolPLD.

I love how you compared PLD to the other two and considered flash equal to the other dspite Flash not dealing any dmaage whatsoever, yea sure by that assessment WAR is dead weight except oh wait still ahead of DRK.

Cover everything or dont cover anything.

Also, insert homogenisation image macro from 3-4 pages ago. It's not the numbers, it's how the class plays.

I never said anything about damage. I'm talking about each tanks ability to do the fundamental task of generating aoe and single target threat. Pld and drk have separate bucket for each task, and the ST bucket refills the AOE bucket QUICKLY. War, for whatever reason was designed with 1 bucket for both tasks and it would be a little wierd if maim gave you 100 tp to mirror the aoe threat resource regen function of riot blade and friend. So we have Equalibrium instead.

Go do A2S on war and 'ration' your overpowers without the tp regen from equalibrium. 3 gcds of flash does not magically recover enough tp to function in a prolonged 10 min endurance fight to perform fundamental aoe threat management.

I am only talking about equalibrium and resource management. If you want to go join the damage QQ support group there's plenty of other people willing to fight and cry with you over that. I don't care to wade into that sea of crap. The fact that flash does no damage is irrelivant to my point that all tanks need a fundamental way to generate both aoe and single target threat in a prolonged instance. If you take equalibrium you have to put it back in some other way to maintain that bare minimum tank functionality.