Lets nerf WAR :D

[OPneedNerfs]

PLD/DRK can work. Take a nin for slashing/vuln debuff oh and can't MCH reduce raid wide damage and have a physical debuff? DRG battle lit?? AST balance/ bole and or royal road, that's raid wide right? Isn't it 10% reduce damage? SCH galv/ Aldo crit.

Basically what I'm saying is that all jobs are effective and that you shouldn't just think
PLD or DRK/War is the only option. All jobs have utility,and there is no set in stone perfect raid group, unless it's pure bias.

SE if you are reading this don't take this thread seriously, people only want to copy others because they lack creativity and only see in black and white.

So is your progression raiding group using PLD+DRK as tanks? If not, why? If so, how far into Alex Savage has your group cleared with PLD+DRK and how long has it been since your group started doing Alex Savage? Is your group sufficiently geared up to around i200 now? If not, are you having troubles/issues with the setup?

I'm sorry, I can't take anyone seriously when they simply write off others' concerns when they haven't proven anything other than giving lip service. If you want to join in a discussion, you have to bring your own points that are valid either through experience or data/numbers.

It's more of a pure bias when groups who refuse to use PLD+DRK go around saying they're just as effective as PLD/DRK+WAR just like when some were saying AST +WHM/SCH was a fine combination pre-buffs when they themselves were using SCH+WHM combinations.

At this point, anyone saying there isn't a problem with the tanks is pretty much lying/delusional or simply don't understand the game/situation well enough. Anyone worth their salt would agree that some slight tweaks for the tanks are needed, much like how anyone worth their salt agreed that AST needed tweaks to be more balanced as a healer.

Oh and a final note, those things you mentioned aren't mutually exclusive to having a WAR in the group. Bringing a WAR would not suddenly take away from NIN/MCH/DRG/AST/SCH being in the group, in fact, especially for the NIN's case, it would be a DPS increase for the group due to the ability to use Aeolian Edge (320 Potency) more often which is a DPS increase compared to Dancing Edge (260 Potency).

This only because you have four DPS slots. So it's not a big problem to have that kind of 'mandatory' synergy. As in if you have a BRD/MCH you essentially need a DRG or you're making shit real hard. And every serious prog group needs a MCH/BRD. Foe req isn't as important in the grand scheme of things, though you can't achieve maximum potential without it.

To be honest NIN and DRG completely bullied MNK out of a spot (due to DRK having INT down). I mean the derlirium slash issue did actually exclude MNKs from the first few weeks. After time passed and the buffs (which weren't crazy, super reasonable number tuning) were implemented the distance wasn't so bad anymore. But it was not unlike the situation you describe. Regardless some set-ups are just plain superior regardless of balancing, this will always be the case. The only thing that varies is by how much (e.g. Fore req not as important and piercing down and so on); which I agree, WARs are ahead by a bit too much.

I wouldn't say that the problem with MNKs being bullied out of a spot was completely due to NIN and DRG. If PLD was as optimal for use in Alex Savage since the beginning, I'm sure people would've brought MNKs for their INT down along with their better personal DPS. It was also good that they tweaked MNK's numbers so that people would take MNKs more over NINs.

That's the beauty of the current state of DPS balance which I would say is very close to ideal. Where any of the DPS jobs, save for maybe BRD/MCH during progression, can be replaced by another DPS job and still be optimal.