Lets nerf WAR :D

[Isius]

I am not agruing things may not change in 3.2 with tanks. It's just sometimes what is said in a interview from devs, and what is actually implemented into that game comes out differently. I rather see more changes before 3.2, and the changes could be small. But it would show they are genuinely actively concern about the subject. I really do not want to see 3.0-3.1 tank inbalance to be forgotten, where changes in 3.2 didn't really change anything. Where there is nothing but uproar on the forums again about tank inbalance months later in 3.2. I've waited for 5 months, and still little has not changed so my hopes for 3.2 changes are not high.

Each tank can have it's own strengths, and weaknessess that is fine, but not on terms of a tank being a tank(mitigation) or dps inbalance to the point it seems more like a flaw design, then one of the tanks strenghts or weaknessess. I really do not want to see FoTM tanks again ever. Why I really highly promote the idea all tanks could be able to MT/OT equally the same. Then have DRK/PLD fighting for the MT spot all the time becoming the new FoTM every raid, while War just always has the OT spot to themselves. Atleast to me this would help out how each tanks will function in groups later down the road. I personally think all 3 tanks need to be readjusted for this to happen to a degree.

[Seku]

Funny thing is that they seem to be making the same mistake as FF 11. Claim nothing is wrong with the job when RDM and NIN are the go to tanks for the strongest things in the game and DPS classes are ok with tanking. I mean..at least they can actually keep hate in this one......some what.

But maybe the new shield swipe change has made them a bit better. Guess I'll go see. Off to Shield shoryuken my way through things.

[Isius]

Funny thing is that they seem to be making the same mistake as FF 11. Claim nothing is wrong with the job when RDM and NIN are the go to tanks for the strongest things in the game and DPS classes are ok with tanking. I mean..at least they can actually keep hate in this one......some what.

But maybe the new shield swipe change has made them a bit better. Guess I'll go see. Off to Shield shoryuken my way through things.

I've tested the new shield swipe changes a little already. Not much has changed. It's a slight dps increase for mt Pld, I still have to use Rage of Halones to maintain aggro if mting while in sword oath without a ninja against higher dps players. I do around +1000dps in sword oath if you are wondering. And with shield swipe being ogcd, but still needing to rely on rng block procs to active it, makes this skill cumberson to use like several other of plds skills, and this buff is meaningless in a all magic encounter. lol

I wish Shield Swipe was turned into just a "ability" that doesn't need block to proc it, and only had the cd as it's cost to use. But with block rng the max you will ever get out of shield swipe is 2-3 per minute.

Well these are just my initial test/thoughts, I'll have a much better idea of it when I go into Savage on weds with my static. But atm just a minor pld mt dps/single target mt aggro buff.

R.I.P. Paladin

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

Took Paladin into Void Ark, could tell literally no difference at all minus an extremely minimal DPS gain. Enmity generation for Shield Swipe is still lackluster in content where it's supposedly "such a great change."

I am better off ignoring the proc in favor of more quickly starting my aggro combo all over again since the combo potency and enmity from Fast Blade to Rage of Halone greatly outweighs that of an ability that's on a 15 second cooldown. This will allow me to drop Shield Oath more soon. The change was unneeded, has made us weaker in content unjustifiably, and is very much ONLY a sidestep to the left and not a step forward.

I really feel like this was just a placebo given to the community to try and placate us with no real effort whatsoever to even begin effectively changing skills and inherent abilities of Paladin.

[Isius]

snip

Yeah I feel like SE is just ignoring the player based that enjoys playing Paladin. I had higher hopes for Shield Swipe changes, and hoped it worked better in practice then it does on paper, but those feelings are slowly going away. Since Pld just really feels like it's in the same spot as 5 months ago.

But even with these changes prior to 3.1 when we just had the patch notes. The changes didn't really sway me away from playing my warrior for my static in A3S/A4S either over my Pld. I was just happy they gave Pld something, but not everything it needed either.

[Donjo]

Took Paladin into Void Ark, could tell literally no difference at all minus an extremely minimal DPS gain. Enmity generation for Shield Swipe is still lackluster in content where it's supposedly "such a great change."

I am better off ignoring the proc in favor of more quickly starting my aggro combo all over again since the combo potency and enmity from Fast Blade to Rage of Halone greatly outweighs that of an ability that's on a 15 second cooldown. This will allow me to drop Shield Oath more soon. The change was unneeded, has made us weaker in content unjustifiably, and is very much ONLY a sidestep to the left and not a step forward.

...

You would ignore an ability that is off the global cooldown in order to use skills on the global cooldown more quickly?

I feel like you're missing something here.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

You would ignore an ability that is off the global cooldown in order to use skills on the global cooldown more quickly?

I feel like you're missing something here.

Tell me I'm the one missing something when I'm actually at level 60.....the only reason you'll ever even want to use Shield Swipe is for increased DPS and you can only maximize what piss poor gain it gives you in Sword Oath. It's enmity generation is dog shit and even more so now that it has reduced potency. It does not matter for me to use it in Shield Oath as it does not provide me with enough aggro generation. Don't take my word for it....actually, I don't even know why I'm telling you this as you obviously won't. You're one of those people squawking that Paladin is "fine" and this is just a bonus. Let the numbers the other people in this forum will post show whether or not I'm a moron, let the numbers FF Logs will record show whether or not I'm out of touch with how to employ a skill changed solely for the benefit of increased DPS.

[Reynhart]

Tell me I'm the one missing something when I'm actually at level 60.....

You don't really have to patronize her when saying something stupid as "Ignoring the proc for an oGCD skill" when you CLEARLY have the time to use it between GCD skills without losing anything...In fact, that's exactly the point of the new Shield Swipe.

PLD is not "fine" but you can't argue that the new Shield Swipe is definitely a DPS increase over the old Shield Swipe, albeit a very small one.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

You don't really have to patronize her when saying something stupid as "Ignoring the proc for an oGCD skill" when you CLEARLY have the time to use it between GCD skills without losing anything...In fact, that's exactly the point of the new Shield Swipe.

PLD is not "fine" but you can't argue that the new Shield Swipe is definitely a DPS increase over the old Shield Swipe, albeit a very small one.

I'm not saying that it it's a DPS loss anymore. I'm saying that in order to actually properly use it, contrary to popular belief, you'll have to use it in Sword Oath. It's potency has been reduced and when paired with my damage down Shield Oath status it further becomes weaker (at that point it's not even 150 potency anymore.) I really, really do understand what you guys are saying. I'm the type of person that tries as much as I can to bury aggro before I do anything else and because of how weak I perceive Shield Swipe to be now, I'm holding off on using it with the intention that Sword Oath will make up for it. I'll tell you the change that could be made where I couldn't really argue against what you guys are saying....if my shield skills, while in Shield Oath ignored damage penalty that, would remove any doubt in my mind about this. It's called "Shield Oath" for a reason, ideally I should take a stance where I predominately use my shield to my advantage no just in defense but offense as well, I strike the target where there's an opening with not just my sword but shield as well. Right now this isn't what Shield Oath does.

And now that you've actually got me thinking on the matter I just remembered, Shield Swipe doesn't cost any fucking TP anymore. I'm ecstatic about that.

[Synestra]

PLD is not "fine" but you can't argue that the new Shield Swipe is definitely a DPS increase over the old Shield Swipe, albeit a very small one.

Just wanted to add that its also pretty awesome for animation cancelling for skills like RoH and RA. It took SE 2 years to make this skill work like it should have been right from beginning, but better late than never i guess, now lets make Clemency a snipe heal and i would jizz in my pants.