Lets nerf WAR :D

[technole]

Dont forget about Unchained lol. When I go into Defiance to prep for the recovery after a buster I: Defience, Unchained, Berserk, Path combo, take hit or hits, I will usually have an IB up after hit, Equilibrium, IB, ToB, Deliverance

Really if you are using unchained in this way you really dont lose any DPS outside of losing Fell Cleave

I actually heard someone in my FC said Unchained was now worthless and I was like you couldn't be more wrong. Some forget that Defiance-Unchained is practically is another "defensive" cooldown that can be used in the DPS rotation to help recover on healing with Equalibrium, IB, Thrill while still keeping DPS up, then after they can assess if can go back to Deliverance to spend stacks.

[Kuwagami]

I actually heard someone in my FC said Unchained was now worthless

That one person should drop the axe and never touch it again. Unchained is still a huge dps CD (or rather, it became a great defensive CD)

[technole]

That one person should drop the axe and never touch it again. Unchained is still a huge dps CD (or rather, it became a great defensive CD)

I already knew they were a questionable WAR based on my past experience with them in FCoB, and of course he had all his character stats and right sides in VIT as well, so yeah.

Plus Infuriate-Unchained is totally a must whenever possible in a main tank opener, and now it's more awesome being used as a defensive CD while going to pound town.

[Abbul_Stonecleaver]

You'd do way more dps doing a triple FC under Berserk after the siren and after jump(s) imo.

I mean Unchained is definitely great as a safe way of doing dps (especially including healer dps), but Berserk under Deliverance is much better for your personal dps than using Berserk with Unchained.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

You'd do way more dps doing a triple FC under Berserk after the siren and after jump(s) imo.

I mean Unchained is definitely great as a safe way of doing dps (especially including healer dps), but Berserk under Deliverance is much better for your personal dps than using Berserk with Unchained.

I typically time my Berserk for the increase to Equilibrium after Hyper Compressed Plasma. You can still triple Fell Cleave, just simply do not IB after you Equilibrium. Worst case scenario you get only a double zerk Fell Cleave.

[SpookyGhost]

"Tanking in tank stance" is kind of the key to having more damage as DRK than WAR as MT - the problem is that rarely will you stay in said tank stance past a few GCDs, and as WAR you only go back in it when Unchained is up... so WAR's MT DPS currently is only slightly behind it's OT DPS unless you have a NIN (in which case you never even need to be in tank stance). WAR's biggest problem as MT is losing IB, whereas PLD keeps Sheltron and DRK keeps DA + DM - if none of these are necessary then you'd want WAR to MT to optimize tank DPS (also lets the PLD or DRK never have to press their enmity combo in their opener which is A+). You can see this in fights like A4S, where it's optimal for the WAR to pull but for the DRK to tank last phase. I think DRK's damage is fine, though, just that WAR edges it out in that regard since it's... supposed to.

I also think DRK's kit is actually pretty well balanced now - the only big problem it has is physical hits that happen in quick succession. This was made obvious by Ravana EX where a DRK would have to split the damage with the group if solo tanking, whereas a WAR/PLD wouldn't. If we see more physical fights with tank busters closer together, then DRK will be in trouble - until then, however, it's CD kit is fine. Even for physical fights, it essentially has the same kit that PLD had and PLD did perfectly fine. I think Dark Dance is a bit awkward as a CD since it's main purpose is to force proc Reprisal... but that really just seems like clunky design. That's my only real issue with DRK atm though, I don't really know what fights we'll have in the future so I can't say for sure that DRK doesn't need adjustments but as it is DRK is fine.

[Syzygian]

"Tanking in tank stance" is kind of the key to having more damage as DRK than WAR as MT - the problem is that rarely will you stay in said tank stance past a few GCDs, and as WAR you only go back in it when Unchained is up... so WAR's MT DPS currently is only slightly behind it's OT DPS unless you have a NIN (in which case you never even need to be in tank stance). WAR's biggest problem as MT is losing IB, whereas PLD keeps Sheltron and DRK keeps DA + DM - if none of these are necessary then you'd want WAR to MT to optimize tank DPS (also lets the PLD or DRK never have to press their enmity combo in their opener which is A+). You can see this in fights like A4S, where it's optimal for the WAR to pull but for the DRK to tank last phase. I think DRK's damage is fine, though, just that WAR edges it out in that regard since it's... supposed to.

Sort of true, but if you assume a stance dancing WAR you can assume DRK is doing the same, and DRK actually does more DPS while tanking than while not tanking, assuming Grit is off either way, while with WAR there's almost no difference, ergo, I'd still go with the WAR OT.

[SpookyGhost]

It largely depends on how many Power Slashes you need to do, though in terms of max deeps I think that WAR pulling until pacified then swapping would garner you a larger aggro lead and allow for more deeps overall. Parry procing Low Blow is also dependent on the DRK being able to parry at all, so in fights like A4S DRK doesn't really get any +DPS from MTing - however, in fights like A3S, they do. So I guess it's largely a fight-to-fight thing, but regardless DRK is in a fine position DPS-wise.

[Hengen_Kaosu]

The basis of your argument is flawed: the reason for the pld/war drk/war pairing is because WAR was designed as a great OT class, and pld/drk were designed as MT classes. It isn't a matter of 3 tanks competing for 2 slots, it's 2 MT classes competing for a MT slot, and one OT class given the OT slot. By the same logic I could call BRD and MCN overpowered. What will eventually balance it out, is when a 2nd offtank comes in (bluemage please? this would make me love tanking). That all being said, Optimal class comp is not needed, and hasn't been needed for weeks at this point, if you're not going for server firsts, go ahead and go PLD/DRK or even PLD/PLD.

Quick edit inb4 someone comments about my levels: the reason my PLD is 56 is because I was leveling it first, I like it better, but another in my group already had 60 in it, and his WAR was far behind; I trained my war up to fill the OT slot for my static. Also: the MT also leveled DRK, we couldn't pass with him on it, so we went back to PLD/WAR, I would still say DRK is the black sheep for many (and not PLD).

[Donjo]

The basis of your argument is flawed: the reason for the pld/war drk/war pairing is because WAR was designed as a great OT class, and pld/drk were designed as MT classes...

People keep saying this. That Paladin is supposed to be a MT. I'm actually tempted to look at their utility and argue the opposite. WAR and DRK have utility that directly target and debuff individual enemies. WAR doesn't much care where it is, but DRK has a utility debuff that requires MT status to successfully execute. Therefore, they're more suited to getting hit in the face. Paladin, on the other hand, has all of these little abilities that(with the exception of Halone) directly target either themselves or other party members to provide some sort of benefit.

As a MT

- Spells are difficult to cast without interruption
- Rarely close enough to a party member to properly be in Cover range without moving/turning the boss
- On the other side of the boss in comparison to other party members, making Divine Veil use questionable
- Forced to use Halone combo. For Paladin, using the hate combo incurs a larger DPS loss than the other two.

As an OT

- Spells can be cast with minimal fear of interruption
- It is always safe to approach a party member to use Cover
- On the side of the boss where everybody else is, making Divine Veil use easier
- Can freely use Royal Authority, bringing overall damage closer in line to everyone else

Paladin can only get the most out of its kit if it is being OT. The moral of the story here is that people should probably stop pidgeonholing Warrior into OT so hard and toss Paladin in there more often. In PLD/WAR, WAR is ideal MT. In DRK/WAR, DRK is ideal MT. in DRK/PLD, DRK is ideal MT. The reign of the great and venerable Paladin MT has ended.