Lets nerf WAR :D

[RapBreon]

Bro edit your posts to bypass the character limit; for the love of god.

Edit: God bless.

[MeeYow]

Exodus: IB uptime is 50% higher than rampart, plus it is a 300 potency attack, heal and a significant TP saver AND can be converted to more damage if mitigation is not needed. The only cost is the WAR has to know the fight to manage stacks, which any capable DRK will also know the fight for cooldown management, and the PLD probably has to know better for things like using shelltron on fluid swing.

IB is by far the best non invincibility 'cooldown' in the game.

As for RI and bulwark, firstly, garunteed mitigation is MUCH better because of the buster meta. Even if a PLD uses a 27% kite the 60% increase gives effectively 16.2% mitigation whilst the 80%+ RI parry increase gives 16% mitigation. Equal for a Large shield, worse for all other types. Not to mention that raw intuition has 33% more duration AND half the cooldown AND generates wrath.

Also, Thrill of battle paired with Convalescence has the ability to turn two not quite mitigation (increasing EHP AND decreasing curing required) cooldowns into one legitimate one with an effective mitigation of 17%

Much like Awareness is well paired with Raw Intuition.

It is sad that some of PLDs skills feel much more at home on WAR.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

Yeah I was taking into consideration stance dancing, Fell Cleaving things, and the fact that Rampart can be used to cover PLD in Sword Oath.... I was also only looking at them from a Defensive Kit aka: what can this mitigate point of view. Man... Honestly I was just trying to throw PLD some kind of bone. As a pure CD Rampart is good...but yeah as a whole IB is way better.

But you are 100% correct on everything that you said.

This is all balanced right?

[MeeYow]

Nothing is wrong with Rampart it is a good CD, also IB is a nice concept, but people often use the stock response of it being part of a larger kit to justify how good it is. The problem is when someone like you goes through the entire kit and notices for every PLD cooldown WAR has an equivalent or better one, that falls apart.

Stance dancing is the right way to consider everything, i was only making a few extra notes so I just put in one sentence about fell cleaves in my last post. The main problem I have is people seem to try to argue the IB FC trade off as a weakness, but it is a strength, it pulls more damage when a cooldown is not necessary, and when a CD is necessary IB is just as strong as it always was. Imagine if PLD could turn shelltron or bulwark into more DPS in A1S, we wouldn't be complaining!

Edit: Also recast timers are massively undervalued. AS1 week 1 being the classic example where PLD, the supposed defence specialist, was the only tank garunteed to run out of cooldowns by tank buster 4. It is also the only one that finds itself needing to weave its invuln skill into its normal CD rotation in order to not run out.

[Abbul_Stonecleaver]

Edit: Also recast timers are massively undervalued. AS1 week 1 being the classic example where PLD, the supposed defence specialist, was the only tank garunteed to run out of cooldowns by tank buster 4. It is also the only one that finds itself needing to weave its invuln skill into its normal CD rotation in order to not run out.

Iirc enrage happens before fourth buster. I remember only needing to plan for 3.


Nowadays with only 2 busters for most groups, Pal HG means even more. Pal can go Sword Oath entire time easier than War full Deliverance. I'm having to swap into Defiance for 10ish seconds for second buster, while a Pal never would have to go into Shield Oath after opener.

[MeeYow]

Enrage is immediately after. If you were pushing that close the last thing you wanted was a dead tank.

Overgear/Farming content isn't a good measuring stick for if classes are balanced or not.

I don't think many DRKs or PLDs will be sympathetic to the stance dancing woes of a WAR.

Also: 25% damage for 10s equates to one GCD, keep in mind that when PLD has to swap it loses 2 GCD - two jumps worth for a WAR - straight up before it loses its 20% damage, a disadvantage to the point where most probably don't even swap until the jump and just drop the shield oath buff. This is in the two jump scenario, anything progression wise PLD is clearly still worse off.

PLD do have to swap for the buster rather than sentinel alone as there is an auto immediately after which does about 3k, just sentinel leaves the total at about 17.4k with respect to the standard 16k HP, ShO brings this to 13.9k which is reliable. The extra STR at 16k outweighs the DPS loss from the swap. It can be done without but for the healing window is very small even for precasted heals.

Finally: in the same kind of run the WAR can holmgang the first buster and stack cooldowns on the second, only needing to enter defiance once in two or three jumps, videos are not hard to find. In fact i would guess more two jump groups are double WAR than PLD/anything. If it was it almost certainly wouldn't have a shield oath PLD opener, it would have a tank with higher hate mods in its dps stance.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

Also: 25% damage for 10s equates to one GCD, keep in mind that when PLD has to swap it loses 2 GCD - two jumps worth for a WAR - straight up before it loses its 20% damage, a disadvantage to the point where most probably don't even swap until the jump and just drop the shield oath buff. This is in the two jump scenario, anything progression wise PLD is clearly still worse off

Dont forget about Unchained lol. When I go into Defiance to prep for the recovery after a buster I: Defience, Unchained, Berserk, Path combo, take hit or hits, I will usually have an IB up after hit, Equilibrium, IB, ToB, Deliverance

Really if you are using unchained in this way you really dont lose any DPS outside of losing Fell Cleave