Lets nerf WAR :D

[Syzygian]

Why? WAR feels like it's in a really good place. Shouldn't the ideal be to bring PLD and DRK up to that level?

The point is it could get nerfed and still be in a really good place. Being in a really good place and being overpowered, meta-dominating, and broken are different things. Rather than buff PLD and DRK and risk upsetting the balance further (it would not take much buffing to PLD to put DRK where PLD is now, and they can't buff DRK without PLD crying even harder, so they would really have to buff both, not one or the other), they should simply bring WAR down a notch. DRK is only used because of how magic focused the raids are, if they were physical, you could easily bring PLD or DRK, but you'd still ALWAYS bring a WAR. They aren't going to bring DRK and PLD up to that level, at least not on DPS, because they (foolishly imo) stated that DPS is part of WAR's utility. LOLOLOLOL WHY NOT JUST SAY "WINNING IS PART OF WAR'S UTILITY"?

So unless they decide to go back on what Yoshi P said, they ain't bringing PLD and DRK up to WAR DPS in both MT and OT slots any time soon. But they could nerf WAR's DPS and mitigation ---slightly--- in order to make them not utterly mandatory for any progression group.

The power and ease with which WAR wields it while maintaining survivability is great and if they actually buff the damage and ease of DPSing while mitigating damage on the other two tanks up to WAR levels, great. I just feel like that's unlikely and a more convoluted solution than to simply take WAR down a peg from "broken and OP" to "a good, well rounded tank that performs in content and has adequate raid utility".

Pretty much, what I believe, is that PLD and DRK are tanks, and WAR is an overpowered obscenity. Rather than make PLD and DRK overpowered obscenities, since they function fine in a vacuum unless they're having to fight for a raid-slot against a WAR, they should just make WAR a tank. =P

Go try and make a raid group with a PLD/DRK composition, I dare you. Unless they're all REALLY good friends, they're gonna laugh in your face.

[Abbul_Stonecleaver]

I haven't read the thread, I just want to say I wish bad bad things for you creating this terrible thread.

[Evae]

I haven't read the thread, I just want to say I wish bad bad things for you creating this terrible thread.

The fact that you're saying this while having Marauder lvl 60 as your main in your profil kinda makes me wanna laugh at your face.

[Abbul_Stonecleaver]

The fact that you're saying this while having Marauder lvl 60 as your main in your profil kinda makes me wanna laugh at your face.

I've advocated slight buffs to Pal in the areas they need.


Advocating nerfs is just petty and stupid.

[Galgarion]

Warriors aren't the problem, the anti-fun hardcore min/maxers are. Give the other tanks buffs that edge out warriors by the slightest fraction of a percentage, and the drones will promptly start benching them en masse. That's so easy to predict, it's not even funny.

[fm_fenrir]

the anti-fun hardcore min/maxers

Winning is fun. Anybody who tells you losing is fun is a liar.

[Galgarion]

Winning is fun. Anybody who tells you losing is fun is a liar.

Winning is fun. Not being allowed by the group to play your favorite class over petty minutiae isn't.

[RapBreon]

Warriors aren't the problem, the anti-fun hardcore min/maxers are. Give the other tanks buffs that edge out warriors by the slightest fraction of a percentage, and the drones will promptly start benching them en masse. That's so easy to predict, it's not even funny.

I've been saying this for ages. However I feel you've got it the wrong way around. It's the people who try to emulate the min-maxers but lack the capabilities to push out the same results; unable to recongise their own limitations that are the problem. They attempt to force what the 'pros' do on their own statics, that's where the tension builds.

If you're part of the actual hardcore min-maxer crowd, you generally have very few issues doing what's required to up your groups chances. The only way to break into those kinds of groups and stick (which is already very hard without knowing someone)...is to be a min-maxer; so it's a non-starter anyway. Basically, if your group is telling you not to play X, but you insist on playing X; you possibly might be playing with a group of people you don't fit in with (or your friends want something different out of raiding than you do, been there before).

EDIT: Has anyway else also been tricked by Syzygian and Kaiseroke? Their profile pictures look almost exactly the same and I keep thinking they're the same person!

[Violette]

snip

Min-maxer's aren't at fault. The raid's are the main issue, paladins low ass dps second and war's powerful kit third.

All the raids have enrages. This is lazy design that enforces bringing the "dps" tank, because you need more dps. If some fights were pure mechanics checks (more towards T7 or T9, where there were smallish dps checks but primarily they were mechanics checks), we could see more variance. If the fight has a hard dps check, bring a warrior? Lot of tankiness needed? bring pld/drk.

- a small boost to the potency increase granted by Sword Oath
- uncapping parry/block strength from a fixed 20% and let it scale with the parry stat.

Parry is fixed 20% across jobs and block is tied to shield strength, it'll get very strong as the expansion goes. Parry being 20% doesn't bother me so much, but for paladin if parry went into block they would be gods of physical tanking and would require a whole new equation for block strength.

However for Sword Oath, just have to remember that it's roughly a 12%~15% dps increase (50% of the 30ish% dps made from auto-attacks), similar to darkside and deliverance. What would be nice is A) Enmity increases on shield swipe and ShO (more in line with drk/war tank stances, more royal authorities while tanking) and b) sword oath giving a small crit boost (5%), since crit is 1.5x more effective for sword oath paladin than drk or war.

[thunderbreak]

change damage buff of maim from 20% to 5%, get rid of berserk all together. Problem solved.