Lets nerf WAR :D

[MeeYow]

http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/7#b...Any&dataset=80

Some actual data on that dps gap.

Saying that WAR does 50% more damage than PLD seems pretty accurate at most percentiles.

[kensatsu]

humm i am not sure pld only do that stacking with force. when it's sure 850 dps is stacked with force for the war, it' seem light to me for the pld.
I would say even it's too light, the dark is 15% behind because of the slaying debuff.
But if the pld do just that stacked with force, it's obvious to me it's too light, i don't think war and dark have 30% less of defense than PLD.
PLD confirm there you don't not more stacked with force ? even the invincibility is not a heavy advantage enough to get so light in dps.
I remember some pld tell they was doing 800 dps in OT dps pos on dummys stacked with force : why they loose 30% of dps in Tank pos ?
If it's realy the case, the PLD miss something, more dps or even more defense advantage, nerf the war will not the pld be better, the dark is better too

[shao32]

paladin and dark knight are more or less well balance, DRK have only shadow skin/wall, reprisal and dark dance combo and foresight for physical, paladin have much more, and for magic paladin only have sentinel, rampath, divine veil, stoneskin so in term of mitigation PLD physical and DRK magical are fine.

WAR have vengeance 120 sec, inner beast every 5 stacks, storm path 60% damage reduction in total and a lot of self heals for both tipes of damage, and plus to physical, raw intuition and foresight, they skills not pass from 90 sec of coldown excep vengeance and thrill of battle is very short.

i really very surprise when yoshi say "wow they really beat then" when the 1º pro raid beat as3, i was like "you are serious yoshi" as3 is a good dps challenge but sometimes i think yoshi dont see or they dont really know the tanks are using the hole in accesories system to make a extra huge dps to beat the Alexander SAVAGE in 1 month.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

the bottom line is a war can gear full fending accessory's and still do better as mt than a full slaying geared pld.

[Kaisersoke]

At this point in the thread, it seems a large majority are acknowledging that warrior is overpowered compared to its peers, for multiple reasons, though through no fault of their own. Here are some things to consider about the topic:

Paladin and Dark Knight both rely on being the primary target for their benefits to count; both lack TP utilities, both tool-sets require that they be attacked - Reprisal and Block are useless when you're not being attacked. Warrior's tools allow it to buff slashing damage, debuff damage, and it has an actual damage stance that puts out more damage while off-tanking. Dark Knight and Paladin become "flavor of content" tanks that come and go depending on what Square implements next. Warrior is guaranteed a spot because of it's damage and utility.

http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/7#b...Any&dataset=80

Some actual data on that dps gap.

Saying that WAR does 50% more damage than PLD seems pretty accurate at most percentiles.

No, what I'm saying is that Warrior is the only tank in the game with a kit so lacking in weaknesses that it doesn't need any outside support in order to reach its maximum potential besides a healer. While PLD and DRK require outside help in the form of the slashing debuff, and in the case of PLD, might even need NIN Shadewalker in order to hold aggro in Sword Oath without relying on Halone spam (a major DPS loss vs. Royal Authority spam), Warrior can basically waltz into any raid composition and fit perfectly, it doesn't become weaker if another class is missing, it doesn't even need outside sources of TP restore very much because it can restore its own TP and has the lowest single target TP consumption of any class that actually uses this resource, so while PLD and DRKs reach the 3 minute mark screaming for Goad, need somebody to provide slashing debuff for them, might in the case of PLD require outside assistance with aggro to maximize their DPS, etc. WAR can basically function independently. Nevermind the fact that WAR is so strong its practically mandatory for any half-serious raid statics. The class is overpowered and while one might disagree on how to fix this, the unwillingness to acknowledge this from people who play it is pitiful to behold.

Id go through and put in more telling quotes, but i think this is sufficient

[Kaisersoke]

you obviously dont understand the difference between a suggestion for a nerf or a demand for a nerf, as ive said numerous times if you read the original post, it was fairly suggestive, it said none of the suggested changes were thought out, but it did suggest there needs to be a change for the current meta to change. that isnt a demand. the demands i imagine are from the many "buff paladin" threads because it doesnt fill any niche at all in the current meta. but its semantics.

id suggest taking that question to its own dedicated thread, because it certainly is an interesting topic.

3.1 is going to be interested from a balance aspect, unfortunately it seems kinda dry on content considering how long its taking to roll out imo, but only time will tell

[kensatsu]

Anyway it's weird the suggestion of nerfing, when the new raid is all about dps, you should ask buff for the pld to sit better in this raid, because a lot of pld are complaining about that, and many players say switch to dark or war because they sit better on A4S,
i played a little with the 60 pld, and the first thing missing to me is a proper mechanic to the pld : i mean something you have to built, not like the rage stacks or the dark art mechanic but something proper to the pld, something to make the Job more intersting to play, I don't see SE change the job before 4.0. But it's still obvious he need a UP atm

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

To be fair, this is not a problem exclusive to DRKs and PLDs. MCHs/BRDs, BLMs/SMNs are kind of in a similar boat.

Basically. But you know, it's different for paladin because of reasons. Obviously paladins should be buffed so they can once again claim a monopoly on that delicious dedicated main tank spot.

[OPneedNerfs]

Basically. But you know, it's different for paladin because of reasons. Obviously paladins should be buffed so they can once again claim a monopoly on that delicious dedicated main tank spot.

Kindly enlighten us, since you agreed with him, on how the MCH/BRD or BLM/SMN situation is similar to the situation DRK/PLD is in against WARs.

[Disc]

Kindly enlighten us, since you agreed with him, on how the MCH/BRD or BLM/SMN situation is similar to the situation DRK/PLD is in against WARs.

DRK/PLD compete for the MT slot, not OT. MCH/BRD compete for the ranged support slot, not melee/caster. BLM/SMN compete for the caster spot, not melee or ranged support. Doubling up on casters or ranged support reduces the effectiveness of the overall party composition due to either loss of maximum damage or loss of support abilities, but like PLD/DRK, is still workable in most situations.

I honestly prefer it like this. Leaves room for a new fourth tank to compete with WAR for OT slot & allows all tanks to specialize more in a specific role.