Lets nerf WAR :D

[Dante_V]

I agree 100% with Sygygian on the DD/Reprisal synergy. There has literally been 1 time that reprisal did not proc for me in savage during a1s and it didn't kill me because I had two other cool downs running. It's something you use in combination with other moves, not rely on by itself to survive.

[Kemas]

Warriors have it all and to bring drk and PLD to the same level of necessity is going to take a lot of work. I don't disagree with the OP.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Warriors have it all and to bring drk and PLD to the same level of necessity is going to take a lot of work. I don't disagree with the OP.

I think the health of this game would benefit a lot from bringing classes that don't work perfectly (Pld/Drk) to a Higher, better functioning level as opposed to bringing down something that's been well designed (War).

The thing is: If they nerf Warrior to make the decision on which tank to bring less black and white without improving the aspects of Pld/Drk that people have issues with, one problem will be fixed but we'll still be left asking for adjustments to things like Clemency, Reprisal etc.

[Daragon]

Inner Beast is a self heal based on damage caused, reduce the potency, reduce the amount cured, and since I hit a level 50 striking dummy and it gave me 1.4k HP, i'm not sure why you think this move needs to be reduced.

The 20% damage reduction you're on about, lasts 5 whole seconds. We're not spamming this move, it is more useful to mitigate a tankbuster and when we can also comfortably re-stack before the tankbuster. Increase the time it takes to build stacks from 20 seconds (2.5 sec rotation - 8 moves) to 37.5 seconds (2.5 sec rotation - 15 moves) would impair it too much. Might as well just be made a 30 sec oGCD.

In high tier raids, people don't remove pacification as they focus on other things, like living.

Increasing switch time for Defiance and Deliverance just means more WAR's would stay in deliverance.

Halving TP Regen of Equilibrium? TP is main resource of WAR. My MP is at 3,278 = 5 x Flash with 3 MP regen ticks outside of combat.

If DRK's and PLD's have such a hard time keeping their DPS up against a WAR, why not let the WAR become the MT for that portion of the fight? DPS increased?, problem solved?.

If you increase timers of Vengeance and ToB to 150 seconds, you've just most likely made sure no WAR could ever survive A1S ever again until they became so overgeared that it could be mitigated by HP and spam heals (T4/T5 sound familiar?) if you didn't know, the Tankbuster is on a 120 second rotation in A1S, meaning WAR needs those buffs to mitigate.

[Adire]

This thread made me laugh. That's all I'm gonna say.

I give it a 4/10. A couple of extra points since it isn't an obvious troll thread until you get to self heals being removed. If not a troll thread, such a huge lack of understanding of the job and thought put into these "suggestions" that it's hilarious. Almost all the suggestions are awful.

[Syzygian]

This thread made me laugh. That's all I'm gonna say.

I give it a 4/10. A couple of extra points since it isn't an obvious troll thread until you get to self heals being removed. If not a troll thread, such a huge lack of understanding of the job and thought put into these "suggestions" that it's hilarious. Almost all the suggestions are awful.

Nah. Almost none of these were serious nerfs, but food for thought. Its gotten people talking for 22 pages and isn't another "buff PLD" thread, so I consider it a job well done. I also totally never said they should lose any of their self heals (never once mentioned a removal of ToB, 30sec Bloodbath, Defiance Equilibrium, or the healing effect of IB; I only suggested the latter get a nerf of some kind because its big damage, a defensive CD, and a self heal all in one GCD. *shrug* to me that seems a bit much), and never tried to remove or undo any fundamental mechanics of the job completely (I left the ease of stance dancing, stack management, potent self heals, high OT dps, etc. almost completely alone), and mostly only suggested recast time/duration/percentage adjustments, nothing more. I never said any of these were perfectly thought out or even strategically/mechanically sound, and definitely haven't gotten personal with anybody over their opinions. So as I said in the OP, sorry if you were offended. =]

I dunno. I thought I made it pretty blatantly obvious that I was playing devil's advocate from the start, and no one had the stones to start a thread suggesting nerfs of any kind, just buffs, and most of those buffs even more ill advised than these nerfs, many of them completely unraveling the core mechanics of the jobs in question and turning them into something else entirely.

[Adire]

snip

4. Increase Defiance/Deliverance recast to 20-30s. The ease of stance dancing and being off-GCD is an integral part of the job, but make WARs think about it a bit more before they make the switch.

WAR is designed to do the large chunk of its damage while in Deliverance. The current shortish CD on stance dancing is to let WAR do this quickly without remaining in Deliverance too long, because while in Deliverance, minus defensive CDs, WAR is extremely squishy. Changing this to a long cooldown would greatly impact the playstyle and damage style WAR has. This would not "maintain the ease of stance dancing" by any means. It would make it far less viable in fact.

1. Increase Vengeance and/or Thrill of Battle recast to 150s. Still less than Sentinel and Bulwark and Shadow Wall but not so short that its ridiculous (120s for what these abilities do is a little much).

Add this on to what I said above, and bam, you've got a clunky WAR with clunky stance dancing and a clunky cooldown kit that can't do much damage without giving healers a headache and forcing them to sacrifice their own damage.

2. Nerf Inner Beast damage reduction to 15% or something, or remove the self-heal.

This looks a lot like you advocating removal of the biggest single self heal Warrior has to me. And considering a considerable part of Warrior's mitigation comes from self heals, and self heals rely on good damage, yeah....

Serious or not, it's best you don't encourage a good tank to be made as clunky as a "bad" tank. It's better to let everyone be good. I.E buff paladin.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

I dunno. I thought I made it pretty blatantly obvious that I was playing devil's advocate from the start

Pretty much, what I believe, is that PLD and DRK are tanks, and WAR is an overpowered obscenity.

Sounded more like bias, to me.

[Syzygian]

Sounded more like bias, to me.

I definitely never said I was unbiased, in fact my very use of the word "believe" immediately underscores the fact that its ***just my opinion***. I just wanted to start a discussion. You've been trying to get my goat with cool little jabs and one-liners throughout this thread, its not gonna work. Its okay that you and I disagree. You've made some good points.

snip

Sure, I suppose. You think PLD should be buffed, I think it'd be more interesting to see WAR nerfed. Sounds like we both want the tanks to be balanced though. I did say many times in my OP though, that none of it was meant to be taken too seriously, and that I was spitballing. I mean yeah, I do think WAR is a little OP, and I've been saying things throughout this thread to try and get people to discuss that because I was genuinely curious to see what people felt about the degree of WAR's power in the current meta.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

I definitely never said I was unbiased.

No, but you literally just said that you're playing devil's advocate. It doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't have bias, but you should make good attempts to mute it. That is, you are trying to claim that you don't necessarily hold the position that WAR should be nerfed, and I'm saying that you're full of it.

You've been trying to get my goat with cool little jabs throughout this thread, its not gonna work.

Clearly not, seeing as how you've interpreted criticism of your argument as some kind of personal attack.

Its okay that you and I disagree.

It doesn't matter whether I hold your position or the one opposing it; that's never been my point. My point has been that your arguments are, as you have presented them, unsubstantiated.