Self-Parser

[KingOfAbyss]

People would start to put their solo numbers on reddit, and then the comparisons would begin. You know the rest. A self-parser is the same: a parser.

[Alex_Lenderson]

People would start to put their solo numbers on reddit, and then the comparisons would begin. You know the rest. A self-parser is the same: a parser.

Yes but how would this impact a party? It isn't like they are going to say "Post screen shots of your in game parser now or we'll kick!" I mean come on...

Also if people did post on reddit wouldn't it be a good thing? Wouldn't you want to know if you weren't playing optimally?

[Colorful]

It isn't like they are going to say "Post screen shots of your in game parser now or we'll kick!" I mean come on...

I think you're underestimating what some players will do when the party fails a fight due to failing to meet a DPS check a couple of times.

[Krylo]

This would be fantastic. I don't trust 3P add-ons and am a paranoid git. I would love to know how I am improving as I play more with my Summoner.

A self-only parser would not lead to anyone being harassed because you still don't know their DPS numbers. Other than the development cost (and I would hope this is minor since damage/aggro is already being tracked within the game engine) there is literally no down side.

It'd be a step in the right direction but it still wouldn't have the utility, either for improvement or static raiding, that a full parser does.

A personal parser's inadequacy in a raid or static situation should be obvious ('Hey we aren't meeting Faust's DPS check, but all I can look at is my own and I'm hitting 1300, and that should be enough for a DPS. I guess I will never know the problem').

As for in self-improvement, dummy training only goes so far. Different fights require different things to stick to an enemy and keep your DPS, and sometimes they aren't obvious and/or are risky enough that you might not think them possible. In T9's first phase, for instance, a monk could shoulder tackle to Nael after she leapt away for her iron chariot, hit her once, and then retreat from the chariot to the center, and keep up GL. Not doing that meant GL fell off every time she jumped off and made monk dps tank. But, considering how that seems like something that would kill you if you tried, how are you to discover this on your own? With a personal parser it's easy to just assume the lower DPS is part of the fight, just like it is with Oppressor's untargetable phases, or Ravana's beetle phases, etc. etc.

With a group parser, in any situation where there's a group DPS drop, you can look and be like 'wow I'm way lower than the rest of the party, maybe I should ask or look up what I can do to improve on this particular fight,' or 'my DPS is about on par with/above most people's I'm probably doing okay here, and can concentrate on tightening my rotation around mechanics instead of trying to find ways to get around them.'

You could, of course, go and check leaderboards or whatever with a personal parser, yes, but the fact remains that the information you'd be given in game would be just numbers with very little context--and numbers are completely useless without context.

I really don't get why we can't have this.

Mostly because there are so many people that are SO TERRIFIED of their numbers being known by anyone for any reason that they'll attempt to shoot down any concession to parsers at all. I'm not sure why they're so worried. The game isn't difficult. My mother, who has nerve damage in her hands (and everywhere else) and very poor eyesight, can get good, if not first day raid-tier, DPS. Almost anyone can if they put in any effort to improve/tighten their rotations/whatever else.

And, the fact of the matter is, with Square's encounter design in Heavensward (ALL DPS CHECKS ALL THE TIME), those people, and Square, are going to need to start making concessions. Not having a parser was okay when the majority of DPS checks were pretty loose and a mantra of 'damage is important but mechanics are more important' was acceptable. That isn't the case anymore. If you want to clear things like Faust, or, hell, even BisEx, anywhere near release, you basically need to be running a parser so you can tell where things are going badly and try to help people DPS better--or remove them, if it comes to that.

And, honestly, the latter--removing them--is the only, and first, option, if you don't know them personally, in a 'parsers are illegal' world. How do you know their DPS is bad if you didn't parse? And if you admit that you parsed them and they get even a little bit offended they can report you and have your account banned. It's safer and easier to just kick people who are doing poorly with minimal explanation, temporarily blacklist them so they can't join your PF, and replace them.

People would start to put their solo numbers on reddit, and then the comparisons would begin.

This already happens. In fact there are websites dedicated to FFXIV parse posting, which I won't post here but it shouldn't be hard to find. There are leader boards for any current content.

There is no reason to worry about this happening because it already happens. Pretty much anyone you play with who is at all serious about the game has a third party parser that they can, and will, run in any kind of static environment--and sometimes in casual ones just to make sure they're keeping up their rotations properly. World first clear screen shots tend to be using the ACT overlay when they're posted and congratulated by the devs.

And they post those parses to reddit, to parse sites, to leaderboards. Reddit was full of Mch parses when 3.0 dropped because people were trying to prove how bad/good it was and discussing rotations to use, to figure out how to play the new class. Same with Brd.

There's no reason to worry about something that already happens all the time.

[Arashmin]

In the workplace, in schools, in pretty much everywhere else in life, you're measured on your performance. So why people feel they should be protected by that, and why SE feels they should provide that protection, boggles my mind to no end. If I was doing something poorly, I'd rather know, and if meant I had to be booted from a group at that time, I'd completely understand. Because that's just how life is.

So, I'd be up for any parser, personal or otherwise.

[Gilraen]

Extolling the virtues of parsing.

The issue isn't with those who voluntarily utilize parsers for their own use. This isn't really a problem so long as they keep their activities between like people. It's when you start waving parser data in the face of people who didn't ask for it and want nothing to do with it that it becomes a problem. I have nothing against helping people improve, but you don't need to throw numbers in their face to do it. Instead you can watch them, ask them what actions they use and when and point out what they can do to get better. Only push the numbers when THEY ask for them, not before. And for Twelve's sake don't be rude about it! I've been in a party where the tank literally did all the wrong things in pushing their parser numbers before /leaving after the second wipe on the last boss of Fractal. New tank arrived and we finished the dungeon without a second thought.

[Krylo]

I've been in a party where the tank literally did all the wrong things in pushing their parser numbers before /leaving after the second wipe on the last boss of Fractal. New tank arrived and we finished the dungeon without a second thought.

To be fair, in my experience, if someone is being a dick about anything in reasonably easy content (like expert roulette), it's generally because they're not good at the game themselves and are trying to cover up their own inadequacies by attacking others. Good players just carry harder in DF rather than attack their party members. (Edit: I had the same issue with a healer in fractal, although he didn't spout numbers, he did call all of us terrible for. . . some reason, cuss us out through two wipes on the last boss, kicked him, tank got a healer from his FC to join in progress, and we cleared it super easily)

That said, I agree with most of what you said, but if someone asks how you know they were doing poorly or gets confrontational you can't tell them how you know because parsers are illegal so you pretty much just have to kick them. It was one of the points I made in there--it's easier to help people if numbers are available and able to be discussed. With numbers being unable to be discussed, it's often easier to kick someone than try to broach the subject of their subpar DPS at all.

But yes, regardless of how legal or not numbers are, don't be a dick about it. Offer help in a polite and respectful manner, if at all. Do so coming at it from the point of view that this person is worth helping and can do better--not from the point of view that they are trash and need to stop sucking.

[Gilraen]

That's the thing, you often don't need numbers to see people doing poorly. It's often rather obvious like a melee DD that doesn't use positioning or a ranged DD that only uses 2 or 3 actions repeatedly. Sure, before the first wipe who's watching anyone, but after that it shouldn't be too difficult to give the other players a glance every so often to see how they're doing.

[Alex_Lenderson]

Krylo - I agree full parser would be the 'best' but this is a compromise. One that really shouldn't bother anyone. (Which is why I don't get the reluctance) Plus if you are talking about static raiding you're talking about the same people working together. Hopefully they wouldn't lie to each other...

[Krylo]

That's the thing, you often don't need numbers to see people doing poorly. It's often rather obvious like a melee DD that doesn't use positioning or a ranged DD that only uses 2 or 3 actions repeatedly. Sure, before the first wipe who's watching anyone, but after that it shouldn't be too difficult to give the other players a glance every so often to see how they're doing.

If their damage is completely and irrefutably awful, sure, but it's not so easy to tell if someone's not using all their CDs at the right spots (like saving them for Ravana's. . . whatever the stance is called when he's being aggressive, instead of wasting them on Beetle). At least not if you're also concentrating on doing your own job. As a healer, in any reasonably difficult content, you should be focused on health bars and DPSing when health bars aren't near empty. As tank you usually have the boss between you and seeing what anyone else is doing. As DPS you have your own rotation to worry about keeping right.

The difference between 1300 and 300 DPS is pretty easy to spot. The difference between 1300 and 900 is a lot harder to spot.

I don't have time to pull off a fight and watch what everyone else is doing to do that. Could I? Yes. But it would make my own DPS plummet as well.

I could also go through the battle log, add up damage numbers, look up DoT potencies and do some multiplying and reverse engineering on crit rates etc, to get the DoT damage, add all that up, and then come back knowing everything without using a parser. But I'm not going to do that either.