Please release nest Normal and Savage raids at the same time.

[StrejdaTom]

Hello,
I have a simple suggestion that would most probably solve the issue with people being burned out with Savage Alexander already.

Please release the next Alexander Normal and Savage turns at the same time and put the story in Savage Alex too.
Make Alexander Savage doable even with other gear than from Alexander Normal and harder skill-wise than gear-wise.
This way raiders won't have to spend weeks on Alexander Normal and get burned out on Alexander Savage so soon.

The only downside of this is that the world first groups will probably clear it faster than this time, because it was gated behind gear, but it will make raiding more enjoyable for sure. Delaying Savage was only artifical gate which has in my opinion done more damage than profit.

EDIT:
I feel that I have made one mistake in my suggestion. I don't want to be able to overgear Savage, I just don't want to farm Normal to be able to do Savage. I don't mind DPS checks, I mind doing the similar content. If there were more types of gear at the same level as Alexander Normal, it could solve that too. The gap might be filled with crafted gear, but please, no pentamelds. -_-

Then wouldn't a viable solution be to 1) use the same loot system from Savage, in Normal mode, and 2) make crafting worthwhile be having a tier of craftable(without having to gather several cores from neutron stars as materials), meldable gear that with the right melds can be on par with, or slightly exceed the drops in Normal mode?

2) Is really something I would like unless it would mean pentamelding gear = puting xx Million Gil into it. It would also solve the issue of crafting not having enough space in this game.

P.s. I know that there is a huge thread going on about it, but it contains a few bad and impossible requests from raiders and also lots of rant. I wanted to keep this as simple as possible.

Yay and I managed to make mistake in title, awesome. That's why posting at 2 AM is a bad idea.

Some good points on this matter, they are obviously taken out of context. Also I am not asking for Normal Alexander to come after Savage Alexander or for Normal Alex not getting any equipment rewards at all, I am quoting these opinions, because I feel that they have some point:

My only point; if you make the barriers to entry too high or delay the tools too long you stonewall people getting into content while it's current. If you want people to stay interested you can but not without giving them a clear pathway to overcome their deficiencies; it kills any interest in your raid just as quickly.

Members of my static were complaining about how Normal completely made Savage feel really deflated. But at the same time, I really like Normal and I think it's pretty valuable. We're in a small FC, but only half of us are raiders. It's nice to do stuff with the other half of the FC the rest of the week.

Personally, what I think they should have done, was released Normal Alexander after Savage. That way, those doing Savage could avoid the story (if they wanted to) and they were already working towards their preferred gear choice. If they had released Eso at this point as well, Alexander Normal could have been totally avoided by those who prefer to raid for gear, story, and just a new experience all together.

Sounds to me you don't know what you are talking about. Putting normal mode into the gear progression path, it came out before eso gear, made it mandatory to gear up ready for savage. Which killed off the story (albeit the story imo is lackluster in comparison to coil) and the sense of discovery. IF the bosses in savage would have been different totally than normal that would have satisfied that sense of discovery. Otherwise it is just repeating the exact same content minus the trash at an increased gear check difficulty.

Personally I would have preferred if Alex normal was released when they normally nerf+echo the current top raid, and instead add that so you have the original challenge of savage for those who come later and want to experience the full challenge and the story version for those who want to catch up or just experience the story as I remember those asking for a story mode of coil were fine with not having any gear from it.

I think I get the intent of this thread.

The idea is that Alexander (Story mode) should be released after Savage/Hard mode. Basically, making Alexander (Story) required for progression in Savage (Had to get to i190 before really attempting it - well, mostly i190 for our left side) really stagnated the progression of a lot of groups. If we could've gone from full i180 Law -> Alexander Savage (Being the cap as 200 similar to old progression), there would've been a lot more groups clearling week 1/2 and the balance would've been tighter, instead of being overtuned for what we went in with.

Not only that, people would've gotten to enjoy learnign mechanics in challenging raids instead of thinking "Oh so what's the twist on Alexander Normal on this one?" There's no real sense of exploration or discovery.

I won't agree to take out Alexander Story, but I think it should A) come later and B) Be less relevant in progression gearing.

The problem here was that people who wanted to do savage, had to also do normal to get gear. They had to do normal an obnoxious number of times to get gear.
Removing normal from the itemization to start Savage would alleviate the fatigue that a lot of savage raiders complained about. Releasing Normal after savage, and adjusting the iLevel design accordingly, would have helped.
As it was, Savage was released after Normal, and the only reason I had to complain was that I had to do normal a bunch before even attempting savage.

As a raider, I don't have a problem with Story Mode/Alex NM. What I have a problem with is the fact that those of us interested in raiding had to farm Alex NM for weeks- especially if RNGesus was not with you. So by the time we rolled around to Alex Savage a lot of us were starting to get a bit burnt out.

If the point of Alex NM/Story Mode was to let non-raiders experience the story behind Alexander, then Alex NM/Story Mode should not have dropped gear. The i180 gear + i185(RavanaEx weapons) were more than enough to clear everything in game except for the Alex Savage. Therefore, Alex NM/Story Mode should have simply been a quick instance that focused on the story behind Alexander.
That way the raiders are still left with the challenge of Alex Savage without feeling burnt out on it. That way it's a win, win situation.

I understand your point, however, normal IS part of the gear progression. Raiders aren't burning themselves out on normal because they want to see the environment and story over and over and over again. Its purpose is also gear progression.

The only suggestion that I might make is that Normal/Savage are released at the same time. Most other games release the easier and harder versions of the same raid simultaneously (Dragon Nest - Normal Mode/Hell Mode and TERA Normal Mode and Hard Mode). This would alleviate the burnout felt by some that they had to grind out Normal to acquire the necessary gear to do Savage (which is in essence a harder reiteration of Normal, so after the burnout of grinding Normal, doing the same fight but harder is definitely not as satisfying or rewarding). Of course this would require fine tuning such that if it were to have happened in HW, Alex N/S should have been doable with practice at ilvl180, and gotten easier to do when fully geared with ilvl 190 from Alex Normal (which would have still been gated by weekly lockouts).

[Nadirah]

I'm all for it.

And keeping the ideal gear level. So yeah, you *can* do it, but you won't have the gear at all right at the start.

I'm also sadistic and like seeing raids sitting completely unkilled, even the trash, for weeks because it's too brutal.

[ruskie]

Frankly I'd prefer if it wasn't X normal and X hard but X is equivalent to normal but something different than Y which would be equivalent to savage. Two stories to follow - would make it more interesting. Maybe have them happen in the same "raid" as such but take different paths.

[AdamFyi]

Something like how the Second Coil of Bahamut functioned would be awesome. Basically, Normal mode and Savage mode have the same weekly lockout, but you can enter previous turns at the cost of chests. Clearing a floor would give you a token, just like how Alexander Savage functions now.

[Selli]

Wha~ I got quoted.

/blush

[KarstenS]

This way raiders won't have to spend weeks on Alexander Normal and get burned out on Alexander Savage so soon.

As long the gear in normal will be good enough to help progressing Savage get easier, this will not be a solution for the "burn out" issue, as every group will run normal just becaue of that.

Also the normal mode is giving a view of what is coming. So even for that nearly nobody will keep outside.

IMHO the onliest solution is to release the normal mode like they did it with nerfed+echoed coil.

[Dree-Elle]

So you just want to get bored and unsub faster? Okay, then.

That will be the real profit-killer.

[KarstenS]

So you just want to get bored and unsub faster? Okay, then.

That will be the real profit-killer.

You really have no clue whats actually happening right?

The way they released the normal mode is already a sub-killer.

Some groups brought, because they did not expect the difficulty. Thats not new. We saw this already in BCoB, SCoB and FCoB.

But way more groups are breaking, because people have stopped playing the game as the normal mode destroyed their motivation for doing savage anymore.

Our bard was one of them and I know many other groups, which have trouble with the same issue. Next ID is now our 4th ID in a row we go into AS without a bard because we got not a single answer to our BRD/MCH requests in PF and forum.

Other groups are searching even longer for their last spot without success.

The raid community has been broken like never before.

[Warlyx]

the issue with Alex normal , was forcing ppl to do it over and over to get a drop , if u were in a static it was 4 times each turn (more if ppl wanted specific drops) ,if u pugged it on DF......unlimited :P

[StrejdaTom]

So you just want to get bored and unsub faster? Okay, then.

That will be the real profit-killer.

Having to grind Normal mode for several weeks to get gear for Savage Mode is real profit-killer.
And it definitely doesn't help you not getting bored, it is the other way around to be honest.