Matches required to reach rank 50 (including log, roulette, etc...)

[Vandril]

A lot of you are acting like increasing the PvP EXP rewards would take time and effort away from other endeavors. Honestly, it won't. Once the numbers are agreed upon, which shouldn't take much deliberation, applying the increase should take only a few minutes.

Them making this change won't divert resources or personnel away from anything more important for any substantial amount of time.

Hell, typing this post took longer than applying the change likely will.

Still...

Rather than increase PvP EXP rewards, I'd rather they decrease the amount of PvP EXP required for each rank. The scaling could use some trimming in order to facilitate further rank cap increases. Otherwise, EXP requirements per rank will continue to rise exponentially and quickly outgrow the PvP EXP increase they currently plan.

[Februs]

Rather than increase PvP EXP rewards, I'd rather they decrease the amount of PvP EXP required for each rank. The scaling could use some trimming in order to facilitate further rank cap increases. Otherwise, EXP requirements per rank will continue to rise exponentially and quickly outgrow the PvP EXP increase they currently plan.

Exp requirements will always go up with each rank. That's unavoidable.So, I'm hoping that whatever Exp solution they implement is not just a flat increase. A real solution to the problem would be to give us a way to scale the exp we earn with the Exp required. In PvE, higher level dungeons give bigger pay outs, but that's not the same in PvP. Currently, we have no way of increasing our Exp to match the ridiculous jump in required Exp with the higher ranks.

Personally, I think that offering in-match exp multipliers would make the most sense (Ie: scale the Exp earned with your final point tally, or offer additional exp for fighting within proximity of a node, or w/e). Something that would give us an incentive to play well within the match might improve match quality.

[Vandril]

Exp requirements will always go up with each rank. That's unavoidable.So, I'm hoping that whatever Exp solution they implement is not just a flat increase. A real solution to the problem would be to give us a way to scale the exp we earn with the Exp required. In PvE, higher level dungeons give bigger pay outs, but that's not the same in PvP. Currently, we have no way of increasing our Exp to match the ridiculous jump in required Exp with the higher ranks.

I get what you're saying here, but... That doesn't really make much sense to me. I mean, think about it this way. The PvP EXP requirements scale exponentially with each rank. If the PvP EXP gains were to scale exponentially as well, then...what's the point in having the requirements scale so dramatically? The same effect could be achieved by simply lowering the power of the requirements scaling.

I suppose they could make the PvP EXP gains scale linearly. It doesn't forever solve the problem, as the gains would eventually be too small for the requirements of theoretical high ranks (say, Rank 100), but it would slow down the expansion of the gap between gains and requirements. It may even do so long enough for the FFXIV PvP rank system to live through its life without another change to PvP EXP gains or requirements, if it's set up with the right formulae.

Personally, I think that offering in-match exp multipliers would make the most sense (Ie: scale the Exp earned with your final point tally, or offer additional exp for fighting within proximity of a node, or w/e). Something that would give us an incentive to play well within the match might improve match quality.

I like this idea. Beyond the base PvP EXP gained from your team's place in a match, gaining further PvP EXP dependent on both your rank and achievements in that match would be a good way to handle things. It would be something like gaining a bonus whenever you accomplish an objective on a map (whatever the objectives for the map might be), where the bonus is larger at higher PvP ranks.

The more I think about it, the more I really like this idea.

[Nalien]

I wish they'd just do away with current Ranks completely... They're utterly meaningless as is... I'd much rather PvP Rank be an indication of skill and dedication, than solely a grind like it currently is...

IMO, scoring a Kill should get you PvP EXP, scoring an Assist (which should be a thing already) should get you PvP EXP, winning a match should get you PvP EXP. Coming second? Nothing. Last? That should lose you PvP EXP. Dying should lose you PvP EXP. Perhaps even just not PvPing should slowly lose you PvP EXP, mostly because I want people who grind their PvP Rank for glamours then never queue again to suck it. Getting the Rank would still provide you the Title, but if you want to keep the trophy (the gear), you have to keep playing to maintain it.

Then PvP Rank means something. If you're Rank 50, it means you're winning more than you're losing. It means you're killing/assisting more than you're dying. It means you're a good player. It means if you want to get Rank 50, you have to "git gud", rather than just grinding however many loses...

Give a clear indication of a players PvP Rank next to their name, and suddenly we've got something similar to Battle High/Fever in Seal Rock. Having Rank 50 means you're a high priority target, making having Rank 50 all the more sweeter.

Throw out the AP system, because PvP Skills were honestly never robust enough to justify it anyway (Ninja maybe had potential...) and it just makes things unbalanced, plus I'm honestly tired of it after switching Jobs so much... Perhaps replace it with more of a handicap system, so a Rank 1 gets a bonus, but a Rank 50 doesn't need a bonus.

As for Assists... If you're attacking someone, and someone else gets the Kill, that's an Assist. If you're healing/supporting someone, and they get a Kill, that's an Assist. In Slaughter and Seize, X Assists = 1 Kill towards Battle High/Fever. This should also make playing Healer slightly more rewarding, since I imagine you'd rack up the Assists like crazy, might be some balance issues for DPS/Tanks gaining Assists, but I'm not paid enough (or at all) to concern myself with that.

Then just throw in a "Personal Performance" page to the PvP Profile that keeps track of your overall performance across all matches, all your Kills, Deaths, Assists, HP Healed, Damage Taken, Occupations, etc.. Just do that anyway actually, I really want that...

[Februs]

Snip.

You're exactly right, and that's the problem.

What I'm comparing is the PvP experience system in FFXIV to other games that use PvP Exp scaling. Almost always, the required exp scales with the rank; however, where FFXIV differs is that in other games players have other means of attaining better exp per match as they progress. In FFXIV you can't.

As it is, the exp system in FFXIV is, basically, linear (most players average out within a similar range to one another in Exp gains). Challenge logs and consecutive loss bonuses aside, you can only gain 200, 300, or 400, exp for participating in matches. No matter what rank you're at, this does not change. That's why people started complaining. The Exp required between ranks 40-50 is, roughly, equivalent to the exp required from ranks 1-40, the most brutal jumps being between ranks 45-50. Yet, despite this, there is no way to increase the amount of Exp you gain per match. So the final 10 ranks seem gratuitously brutal by comparison to the first 40. The only thing that makes them even remotely tolerable is that you know that after rank 46 you can start using the current top level PvP gear set; however that gear set is not nearly as useful in Seize as it should be.

Putting in a progressively scaling system is more for the benefit of Wolves Den, as that game mode takes greater advantage of PvP skills and Morale bonuses, and WD matches are scaled according to Rank, unlike Seize. However, it also allows for a greater sense of achievement. Progressive scaling is, in most games, one of the main reasons that Players keep coming back to a certain game mode. Working for that next level is a driving force. The problem with SE's version is that the rewards to not match the effort it takes to get them.

SE was right to put a progression system in the game, because it's what keeps most people playing, however their implementation was majorly flawed. To make this work for the greater PvP community (all of us, not just those who do Wolves Den), they need to give us incentives and adjust the ways in which we can gain exp. In game bonuses are a must (though implementing them would be tricky), and more rewards for attaining ranks should be considered. A lot of people would like to see an overhaul to the Wolf Marks system so that it includes more gear as well as housing items, mounts, minions, etc.

Personally, I also think that they should bring the Morale Bonus back to Seize as well. I know that it gives Rank 50 players an advantage, but that's kind of the point. They worked for those ranks. They earned their bonuses. You don't see players in FPS games reaching higher ranks to be rewarded with water pistols, do you? No. They get the guns. So should we.

[l---------------l]

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TWISS!! WHERE ART THOU?!


By the way.... The information is more or less accurated. I'm rank 45 with Maelstrom, Flames 34, Snakes 24... It took me around 600ish matches.

I still think that, (Even if unfair for healers) the kills and deaths should somehow have some importance in the PvP exp you received... I would have been all 50 time ago if so!... I'm around 4300 kills out of 600 matches.

At least a challenge log for kills in the week? 25-50-100-200.
Or challenge log for getting battle high and fever. Such as "Obtain battle high in frontlines (x5)" "Obtain ..... (x10 )" "(x30)" etc.

As another side note, you could also reward healers with more exp that pass certain healing numbers. I know that's not definitive and much less means skill.. But, geez, what other way? You could also make a new stuff to count called "Save the day" or shorter... It's already in game, when you heal someone that is about to kill a special sound is displayed. That could count towards something in the data retrieved at the end of the match and give extra exp to heals who saved the day.


PS: I'm back to Mael today!

PS2:

Yeah come back !

I caught the lala-cute friend first post!

PS3 (Our limitator): I really think that it's not a good idea to give more raw PvP experience straight away.. Maybe a guild power, maybe the buffs I wrote before for own personal achievements and not team ones.... But not just duplify the exp received. It would make basically useless the efforts of those who have been loyal to PvP while increasing the people that changes grand company. (Many don't change GC because fear to lose their rank after all... I understand it well, going from 45 to 0 is like "Oh, well, let's try" )

[Stormrider]

Switched to adders took 5 days and 53 matches to get to just under rank 22. What is weird is the loss bonus. I got 3 matches in a row with 450 xp from second place. Then after repeated 3rd places and getting second got the bonus xp for moving up but didn't reset the loss bonus. Not that one person could manipulate losses enough to be viable. It just feels I get more xp for losing then I do winning.

Also the ability to get 4 matches in an hour compared to 1 (if lucky) means ranking up way faster by losing. As long as you are not looking for win achievements. Still got 11 out 53 which would be unheard of on Flames (aether). But I feel if i get some time to buckle down get some matches in I will be able to level way faster then anyone on a winning Grand Company.

[Blubbers]

Oh man welcome to Adders Storm! The wins are few but the queues are fast. I know quite a few people that recently swapped from flames so I hope I get some matches with you guys.

[Blubbers]

The charts have been updated to reflect xp changes in 3.1! Overall you now need 22-30% fewer games than you did before to reach max rank!

[Stormrider]

What 22% less of watching randoms trying to solo 24 people? Actually saw a healer die 8 times, A HEALER /shocked. Otherwise nice work as always. They should almost post your info or something similar on an Official page.