Is AST recognized as a viable healer yet?

[Skapoc]

Oh and don't get me wrong there are thing WHM do great that I wish I had on my AST. The point I am trying to make is very clear, ASTs can clear all content in this game and sometimes are better suited for it. Like I said originally the reason you don't see to many good asts is because people gave up on it and are to invested in whm now.

[zcrash970]

f you need 700 potency cure to save someone then something is wrong. Its much better to have a shorter cooldown and use it more often after cleaves or busters which happen very often in so.e fights. Over healing is rampant in this game and larger heals are normally not neccasary. Its all about speed and timing of heals. Saves MP as well.

And like I said Cure 3 is great but it has little to no use in this raid cycle. Just a ton of over healing.

And once again every card is good so if you don't get one you got another. I drew 6 balances on my first A3S clear. I drew 2 on the second clear but ihad more ewers and boles so I was able to DPS more. So it doesnt matter what you draw all of them are useful.

I didn't say "to save someone," but a burst heal can save someone or a group from a fail mechanic.
I know that cure 3 isn't needed but its the fact that you could need it at some point and that AST doesn't have anything that can compare with it.

That's good card rng. I've been playing my AST for about an hour today and still haven't drawn an Arrow.

So using a classes own tool kit to help themselves is a disadvantage? By that logic Bards and Mach shouldn\\'t give themselves TP, Paladins shouldnt Clemency themselves, etc. Its part of the kit and perfectly fine to use on yourself. And like I said AST also have lower MP costs across the board. I have died in A3S on AST and cleared it only getting Ballad when I got ressed.

Yes, it does. If you are using party supporting effects to support yourself, you are either a bad player or there is something wrong with the party.
There is only 1 situation when a BRD/MCH should play their tp refresh for themselves and that's on an aoe spam. That's only in A2S and dungeons.
PLDs do not get the chance to use Clemency on themselves while tanking because it can be interrupted. If they could and did use Clemency on himself then the healers are probably failing or dead. And besides, Clemency is completely uneeded because overhealing is very common according to yourself.

[Dalvy]

AST is viable, but SCH may still prefer to take WHM

[Aethaeryn]

But as long you do not level up your WHM to 60 and collect first hand experience, you will never know, which one is true

I have every job at 60 besides paladin (52) across three characters because I hate stupid weekly lockouts. It's generally not good to make assumptions based on what character someone is posting from.

Anyway, thread creator asked if AST was viable. AST has cleared A4S, so the answer to that question is yes. However, OP, lots of people irrationally hate astrologians, so it'll probably be an uphill battle to find a good group willing to take you over a white mage. I'm sure you can tell that from reading this thread, but I think the main issue right now is synergy related (and the current "meta" with endgame strategy) rather than glaring issues with the job itself. If you enjoy AST, I believe you should stick with it. At least it's not currently holding back groups the way that paladin seems to be with A4S.

[Ametrine]

I have had almost no problems as an AST in the grand majority of content since the buffs. The DPS is lower than Scholar's, but proper card utilization alleviates that by bolstering your party. We have fewer heal options, but our basic set is more than enough.

Honestly, the only thing AST lacks is an aggro dump (our refresh is more of a quelling), and even that isn't a problem in Nocturnal Sect as you won't build aggro with the sheilds as you do with Diurnal's regens.



But, that said, I agree with above responses in that the AST's aren't being used like SCH and WHM because most raid level healers have been putting the work into the other jobs. It isn't because it's still underpowered.

[AlereRaeder]

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Hey i'm joining in this!

Before anything: A support class cannot be above a non-support class, because balance says they have to be weaker for them to have such utility.

WHM and AST are equals now. Just except it.

Pretty impulsive statement.

Healing in this game basically potency based: ie. boss does 1000 potency AoE on 8 people = 8000 potency overall. Shields lower this. This means you have to heal that much potency.

Did you know AST gives a PIETY party buff? 3% less healing (non-monk mantra 5%). Using cards on yourself is detrimental to the party, definitely not detrimental to yourself, that's the logic zcrash970 has. Let's put it to perspective:

10 minute fight: Draw 30s - TOTAL 19(20) cards drawn during that fight w/out prep, 19 cause Draw CD timer adds up. You can shuffle 9 times. You can hold 9 times. You can get 9 royal-roaded combos. Can because this is all situational.
_______________
Let's say you want a Royal-Roaded AoE Balance.
Royal road RNG is 1/3. Effective card draw is 1/6. Shuffle is another 1/6 or 1/3 (depending if you held a card) on top of that (yo dawg) since you need this in order it's multiplied. So you could get what you want at a .17 x .33 = .056(~6% chance no shuffle) - (shuffle for RR= .018(~2% chance))(shuffle for Draw=.009(~1%chance)). All this waiting 60 seconds minimally.
RNG sucks, if you wanna use an Ewer you are only hurting your team; what if you needed it? Better thought about it when you decided to play AST.
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An AST's 20% 90s recast Synastry is not better than 30% 60s recast Divine Seal.
AST do not have Eye For Eye, 10% less damage defensive cooldown for tanks.
AST do not have Virus, 15% less physical dmg 10s. Disable is neat for 1 move. Also go back to Eye For Eye.
AST AoE heal ranges are low, it's silly.
AST's inadequate damage AoE. WHM Aero 3 ticks for 200 potency on 5 targets for 24s. #Holy makes Gravity laughable
Free oGCD Fluid Aura Knockback 30s recast
Lack of instant healing. Tetra+Assize+Benny
Lightspeed for lower recast speed


You seem to be undermining Assize... like A LOT.

Same scenario 10 minute fight: Assize 90s recast. Used at most 6 times. 60% MP return. 60% of 14000MP= 8400 mana.
300 potency AoE Heal with 15y range. Helios potency 300.
Shroud isn't even accounted for. Natural regen as well. MP Regen? We are drowning in it.
Asylum 24s recast duration of 100 potency healing per tick(600 potency 1 member). Could be 800 potency per tick if 8 members stack. 90s recast. Theoretical potency of 4800 if 8 stacked. This fucking ability is better than a Cure 3 overall potency of 4400 8 people. 0 mana cost.
***Medica II hasn't even been casted and only instants were used.
****Use Assize after a Medica, Medica costs nothing.

Blah blah blah over healing... to sustain healer regens. The co-healer doesn't even have to heal.

WHM supreme, SCH second, AST third

[Kassiekane]

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Yeah, this was the answer I was looking for, so thanks. I'll level it but I won't really be pressed on raiding with it until the so-called meta changes.

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There's so much wrong in this post.

[AlphaSonic]

I still think that AST needs a rework. Even if it is competitive it's just lazy design with cards added.

[Skapoc]

snip

You do understand how situational E4E is right? That it doesn't proc off magical attacks so in fights like A4S its mostly useless much like block and parry. Also you will always have 2 E4Es anyway since you will always have a SCH and a Caster DPS and if it's a Summoner it's even better since they have traited E4E. Did you even know they changed Disable to not be removed for 1 attack? So it's leagues better then non-traited virus and is amazing to pair up with SCH Virus since there is no anti-disable you can use it on cooldown. For example using it for every Cascade in A3S which is not possible with Virus.

[Ghishlain]

There's so much wrong in this post.

Yes, yes there is. . .

Healing in this game basically potency based: ie. boss does 1000 potency AoE on 8 people = 8000 potency overall. Shields lower this. This means you have to heal that much potency.

Did you know AST gives a PIETY party buff? 3% less healing (non-monk mantra 5%).

In SCH + AST load out, you can work around this. In fact, you SHOULD be working around this as you're using this composition with this in mind.

Using cards on yourself is detrimental to the party, definitely not detrimental to yourself, that's the logic zcrash970 has. Let's put it to perspective:

10 minute fight: Draw 30s - TOTAL 19(20) cards drawn during that fight w/out prep, 19 cause Draw CD timer adds up. You can shuffle 9 times. You can hold 9 times. You can get 9 royal-roaded combos. Can because this is all situational.
_______________
Let's say you want a Royal-Roaded AoE Balance.
Royal road RNG is 1/3. Effective card draw is 1/6. Shuffle is another 1/6 or 1/3 (depending if you held a card) on top of that (yo dawg) since you need this in order it's multiplied. So you could get what you want at a .17 x .33 = .056(~6% chance no shuffle) - (shuffle for RR= .018(~2% chance))(shuffle for Draw=.009(~1%chance)). All this waiting 60 seconds minimally.
RNG sucks, if you wanna use an Ewer you are only hurting your team; what if you needed it? Better thought about it when you decided to play AST.
_______________

I don't think I quite understand what you're trying to prove with this point, to be frank. I think most people realize RNG is RNG and you need to work with what's available. Here are the individual statistics in case anyone is curious:

Chance to draw a specific card - 1/6 (17%)
Chance to draw a specific RR - 1/3 (33%)
Chance to draw a specific card w/ Shuffle Available - 1/6 + (1/6)*(5/6) = 31%
Chance to draw a specific RR w/ Shuffle Available - 1/3 + (1/3)*(2/3) = 55%

The good ASTs will be trying to build a combination based on their previous pull and what cooldowns they have available.

An AST's 20% 90s recast Synastry is not better than 30% 60s recast Divine Seal.

Synastry also grants 40% healed to the target you used Synastry on. This is for a total of 68% healing on the target (average of 15.1% healing boost throughout the fight with 20s uptime on a 90s cooldown). Divine Seal averages 7.5% additional healing throughout the duration. Synastry isn't affected by AoE spells. Therefore Synastry is the better single target burst healing and Divine Seal provides a better AoE burst heal.

AST do not have Eye For Eye, 10% less damage defensive cooldown for tanks.
AST do not have Virus, 15% less physical dmg 10s. Disable is neat for 1 move. Also go back to Eye For Eye.

Disable is 10% reduced potency for 6s on a 60s cooldown. You can Disable more often than Virus or Eye for an Eye. This is potentially important if tank busters are on say 70s rotations.

AST AoE heal ranges are low, it's silly.

If you're relying on the 20y range of Medica II to heal, then something is amiss.

AST's inadequate damage AoE. WHM Aero 3 ticks for 200 potency on 5 targets for 24s. #Holy makes Gravity laughable

Gravity does the same damage as Holy (and has the same penalties). You have no need for the Stun in any boss encounter. Any loss of AoE damage due to Aero III can be made up by most likely buffing your SMN.

Free oGCD Fluid Aura Knockback 30s recast

...if you're using Fluid Aura for the knock back effect, most DPS and Tanks are going to hate your soul. Will concede that AST has no equivalent to this free damage though.

Lack of instant healing. Tetra+Assize+Benny

This is true, but Essential Dignity is basically AST's Tetra but generally always better.

Lightspeed for lower recast speed

No, Lightspeed is for resource management and movement during mechanics (arguably not needed on the 2nd point if you play well).

You seem to be undermining Assize... like A LOT.

Same scenario 10 minute fight: Assize 90s recast. Used at most 6 times. 60% MP return. 60% of 14000MP= 8400 mana.
300 potency AoE Heal with 15y range. Helios potency 300.
Shroud isn't even accounted for. Natural regen as well. MP Regen? We are drowning in it.

Assize gives you 10% MP back every 90s. AST casts their heals at generally 10% to 20% less MP than a WHM would at the same potency level. AST wins if you look at from an Assize MP regeneration perspective. Also, Luminous Aether does the exact same thing as Shroud of Saints in terms of MP regeneration.

What actually allows WHM to win the MP debate is the fact they get Freecure (this trait is ungodly powerful) and their Regens are more MP economical than AST Aspected Benefic in Diurnal Sect.

Asylum 24s recast duration of 100 potency healing per tick(600 potency 1 member). Could be 800 potency per tick if 8 members stack. 90s recast. Theoretical potency of 4800 if 8 stacked. This fucking ability is better than a Cure 3 overall potency of 4400 8 people. 0 mana cost.
***Medica II hasn't even been casted and only instants were used.
****Use Assize after a Medica, Medica costs nothing.

Blah blah blah over healing... to sustain healer regens. The co-healer doesn't even have to heal.

Asylum is actually 800 Potency per person assuming they stay inside the bubble for the entire duration.

Collective Unconsciousness is 150 / tick at the cost of the AST standing still for a few seconds for a total 6 ticks meaning 750 Potency. As soon as the AST holds still for more than 1 tick to refresh the duration, Collective Unconsciousness will heal more than Asylum will. And both are on the same cooldown.

BTW, AST Diurnal Aspected Regen is actually more potent than WHM Regen when considering duration. WHM's Regen just happens to be extraordinarily MP efficient in comparison.

WHM supreme, SCH second, AST third

It's actually more like SCH > WHM = AST (both WHM and AST bring tools to the table that are useful and you pick the tool that's more useful for the fight if necessary).

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Honestly, if you're going to imply someone is "wrong", then you should at least have the curtsy to fact check your own work before stating them as truth.

[EDIT] To answer the OP, yes AST is viable in end game raiding. I currently play AST while partnered with a WHM. While I know SCH is much more potent than AST with this setup, I prefer to play AST as its play style matches my thought process better than SCH would.