AST cards in raid

[Elth]

After hours upon hours of raiding as an Astrologian, tired of Royal Roading Ewers and Spires just to get them again on the next roll and a few friends asking how the class should work, i drew a kind of routine of what to do with my cards. However, it is (and I am) obviously far from perfect so i'd like to know this forum's opinion about it.

Base statements :
- 8 players raid groups only
- Base routine to think about even if sometimes other choices are better (obviously, everything can be situational)
- Trying to optimize DPS cards to spend as much of them as possible in AoE, while trying to avoid AoE Spears/Bole/Spires etc.
-Trying NOT to override Royal Road buffs if possible.

It basically looks like this :



bigger : http://i.imgur.com/HcYZfWd.png


Thoughts ? Would you play them differently, add or remove something, play a random Extended or Enhanced Spire or just get rid of the card ?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

A for effort, at least
D- for the thought you put it in

Mainly because the depth of this "flow chart" is extremely shallow and the flow chart assumes every card but balance and arrow are completely useless by default for any situation and/or encounter. If one would follow this flow chart and not draw a single arrow or balance, they'll never play out a card. Not to mention there's a gigantic contradiction in there on the arrow/balance branch and ewer/spire branch.

[Elth]

Using a flow chart was just much simpler than using words to describe what i would do. I admit it might not be the best way to put it, but it (kinda) works. Thing is, if i never draw Balance or Arrow i don't feel that i have any significant impact in my raid, and always draw a few of them (long fights like A3 or A4 gives you a lot of draws after all).

About the contradiction, thanks, just saw that you'll never have an Expanded buff without a spread, my bad.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

It's also too easy hit a dead end with that flowchart of yours: Bole/Ewer/Spire/Spear -> Shuffle -> Bole/Ewer/Spire/Spear -> Royal Road -> Next draw another Bole/Ewer/Spire/Spear -> No shuffle, already got Royal Road. Now what?

In the end, I'll point back at how shallow I think the flowchart is. Not only in value of use, but extremely misleading for whichever aspiring astrologian would take this seriously.

[Elth]

As I said, the base idea was not to make the ultimate flawless chart and post it in a guide or something. It was just to illustrate what i do and ask what people usually do in those situations. I'd rather talk about class mechanics instead of what i used to explain how i'm doing with my cards if you don't mind

In your exemple... well it's covered. Ewer/Spire, click the card off, Bole Spear override royal road... most of the time i wouldn't burn my RR buff for a Bole or a Spear.

[Rox_Unlimited]

What I do is use every card until I get what I want. If you constantly royal road all your cards away looking for arrows and balances your wasting a lot of buffs. So instead you should use every card you get no matter if people need them or don't until you get the card you want to Aoe/Extend/Enchace. You spread that card and then you use all your cards until you get the card that will give you the buff you want. It's an easier way of making sure all cards are used so you won't end up giving no cards looking for a balance or arrow while the RNG is not I. Your favor.

[DarkmoonVael]

Spear is very useful on Machinists and Ninjas (and perhaps Bards) during a fight, and can be very useful in melee if you get it on the pull. Just stating that it should be used on yourself for LA or shuffling it is not particularly good skills from a raid AST.

Bole says hello to tank busters, something a raid AST should be looking out for. Situational usage of cards is important for a raid AST.

With Arrow and Balance, why are you suggesting that if you cant aoe it, you should spread it as a priority instead of using it? On a single dps for burn phases its very very very good, and keeping it spread indefinitely until you get an aoe royal road is pretty much gimping your buffing performance throughout a raid.

Spire/ewer should be uses appropriatly. Ewer can be used on yourself, as many raid AST take the place of WHM and ar expcted to put out a lot of mana intensive solo healing. Spire can let a war go a bit more crazy in deliverence, can let melee dps do more aoe when needed etc in raids.

[lordparanoia]

I dont agree with this flow chart. It's not the way astrologian should be used imho.
What I love about astrologian is that this job is incredibly situational. In some fights like a2s i use Spire to refresh tps of my melee and bole one of my tanks while I solo heal them both. And of course there are fights i draw only one of two balance, if i did what your flowchart says i would use just a few cards per fight. If you wait the card you want, sacrificing the others, it's like you're not supporting your party but you're playing a white mage that sometimes plays with cards.

[Elth]

Well, maybe it's just me but i don't really feel much of a difference on tank bursters with Bole.
Wether it's hypercompressed plasma, prey marks on gobwidows or on pretty much every part of A3, the only time i felt something was on Cascades, but everyone takes a lot of damage and get topped of in AoE so Bole still doesn't make much of a difference on one player.

My MCH and Ninjas told me that "Spear doesn't matter since even if we get our CDs back earlier, we'll wait for a burst phase to use them" and i don't feel like wasting my Spread on a Spear to keep it for burst phases (ofcourse if i get a Spear right before a burst phase, i'll play it, but this would be sheer luck)

My melees don't benefit from Spire since they can sustain themselves on most fights, aside from A2S where DRG and MNK swap their role as gobwalker driver when they run out of TPs and my WHM cohealer barely notices when he gets an Ewer even on A3S P4.

From that point of view, even if i do agree that AST is very situational and there's a FEW situations where other cards than Balance and Arrow are useful, i wouldn't say it's most of the time.

The idea behind keeping Balance/Arrow in your spread waiting for an opportunity to AoE comes from the many times i got Balance/Arrow, played it on a single target and drew Ewer/Spire right after, cursing myself for not waiting.
The way i do it kinda "wastes" 30s of Draw but at least keeps that DPS card safe until the next AoE, allowing me to play every other DPS card on single targets, even if it means i sometimes draw a Balance with another Balance in my Spread. That way, i'll still play useful cards, and when Spire/Ewer comes say hello, Balance is ready to be dropped with it.

Dunno, you're making me feel like i greatly underestimate Bole/Spire/Ewer, but in the same time the occasions to really make those shine are so, SO rare and my raid buddies never felt like they were needed or even would make their life that much easier.

[Kaisersoke]

In response to your mchs and ninjas.. they should NEVER hold on to cooldowns for "burst phases" unless its the hands in as3, and spear also affects mudra cooldown, allowing ninja to use another ninjutsu before the 20s mark, which is a dps increase no matter what angle you look at it.
If you dont have a RR youre saving and you draw a bole.. just throw it on the tank anyways. you can solo heal in that time so your co-healer can dps. you might not feel the effects, but theyre there. they help. no sense in burning too many cards, youre gimping yourself.

Ewer is immensly powerful, especially on summoners, or your co-healer. or yourself. More mana=more wiggle room, or for the summoner, if theyre good, they will realize you ewer'd them, and they will throw out extra ruin III. dps increase. if neither are applicable, RR fodder for Expanded.

Spire is considerably less useful, but if no DoW are hurting for tp, more expanded RR fodder. but as you said, your melee swap the gob, whereas if you threw a spire on your monk (who is much better aoe and single target damage than dragoon) they would be able to dps longer. dps increase.

all of your cards are dps increases one way or another, the more of them you burn on royal road, the more dps loss you incur. royal road and shuffle both should be used for strategic buffing, setting up for phases that require heavy dps, heavy healing, etc.
spreads go to arrow/balance first and foremost, or spear/ewer situationally. an expanded spear on pull is WAY underrated.

example: Youre on oppressor savage, .5 has yet to come out, you have an arrow on spread, no current royal road, and you draw a bole. shuffle is ready to be used, and a tankbuster is coming up soon.

your options now are extensive. you could toss the bole on the tank, and save the arrow for the next draw, hopeful for an ewer/spire.
you could shuffle the bole for a hopeful ewer/spire for some serious raidwide dps before .5 comes out.
you could royal road the bole and arrow a dps for a more reliable dps increase (because you wont always get expanded rr)

the strengths of AST is mainly in how many options it has, but making the wrong decisions is also a major weakness of AST. It has amazing potential, and you shouldnt downplay the potential of any of your cards. they are all very strong, albeit not always in the same ways.