Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

[Seku]

RNG long term mitigation on physical damage, there is no way of tailoring fights to make Shields a significant component, shield blocking is just too weak and to make it a true advantage would require a major buff. Given that shield is so minor, fights with frequent high damage bursts, i.e., absolutely unclearable without frequent mitigation cooldowns

AS2, the only fight in current savage that people carry a PLD with them and don't view them as a hindrance, and first runs in T4 in BCoB say hi to your disagreement of tailoring fights to make shields a significant component.

If the frequent attacks were tank busters, then IB would win. If their high damage consistent auto-attacks, I see shield being favorable in the long run. But you also add in shieldtron now and PLD takes it. But IB would do just fine, which is all you really need to begin with, which is further justified by the utility of -10% damage or damage increase for slashing weapons and high personal damage that WAR can bring.

All I'm trying to say is the dps checks are high on purpose so you really shouldn't say a job is bad because it needs high level gear by design that's how it was created.

When you require the entire raid and the job in question to be roughly 10 ilevels away from the gear you're getting from the content you're trying to clear, yet anyone else can do it. Something is wrong with the job.

[Gumbercules]

someone posted in another thread that the big issue with pld is the threat they lose dps-ing, and i agree with that statement (in as far as what ive experienced overall) One solution would be to move warriors potency out of the threat combo and into the debuff combo, but while this might be fair it would also be boring. Warrior is the aggressive tank and the way its dps rotation works now is a testament to that, so i would rather see changes to pld along the lines of it "stalwart" nature. For example i would like it if provoke had a gld/pld trait that made it work off the pld itself and had a higher threat modifier in such instance (aka ff 11 style voke), tweaks to its base threat combo to allow more freedom in using royal authority, changes to shelltron to have it "reflect" magic, as in mitigates inc magic damage similar to how it would deal with a physical block and returns some attack power formula of magic damage back (something along the lines of a 300-450 pot attack)

[Brannigan]

To all the people bringing up warrior salt in 2.0: I'm not talking about the state War was in at launch. I'm talking about AFTER the fixes. It's like a game of telephone spiraling further and further from what was originally said. Anima further discussed it directly after my post.

Warrior was 100% fine after the fixes and could solo tank anything that a paladin could. If you want to whine about the stupid community not doing it, that's fine, but warrior's defensive weakness was a myth. I also think some of what Anima posted is a little dubious (paladin as a required MT for bahamut prime when switching off was way better) but whatever.

[ArdorGrey]

Warrior was 100% fine after the fixes and could solo tank anything that a paladin could. If you want to whine about the stupid community not doing it, that's fine, but warrior's defensive weakness was a myth. I also think some of what Anima posted is a little dubious (paladin as a required MT for bahamut prime when switching off was way better) but whatever.

So you're saying that the community's perception inflated an otherwise minor issue? Interesting, I wonder what else that could be applied to.

[Famrid]

Increase block rate with shield oath decrease it with sword oath, make shield swipe offgcd.

[Adrasteia]

So magic damage is an issue with the new raid content and DRK so happens to get a magic reduction ability. Let's burn the class at the stake now. What happens when we get another raid with mostly physical. Pretty sure that will be the greatest thing since sliced bread and no one will be complaining then.

The whole "magic damage vs. physical damage" piece is honestly a red herring, because:

1) Tanking classes should not have specific defensive niches that they excel in. Being able to feel like a big shot on the "does very large physical tankbuster" boss is cool, except that the situation then completely reverses on the "does very large magical tankbuster" boss and you feel like a schlub (or, in the worst case, have to switch completely to a different tank). If their intention is for tanking classes at the very high-end to be switched out depending on what's most effective from fight-to-fight, then they shouldn't have introduced class-locked Esoterics gear.

2) The issues that Paladins have extends outside of their ability to successfully complete Savage Alexander. They are by miles the slowest-clearing tank in the game (with a maximum AoE PPS of 2.333~ or thereabouts); two of their Heavensward skills (Clemency and Divine Veil) are close to useless; their single-target DPS is a joke; and their defensive prowess is now equally matched, if not outmatched, by both Warriors and Dark Knights. Raw Intuition is a straight-up better Bulwark. Equilibrium blows Clemency out of the water. There's already been a lot said about Dark Mind, but even Dark Dance is pretty dang useful considering that it's up nearly every pull in a dungeon. The benefit of having a shield is tiny (a 3-5%~ boost against Physical damage), and Paladin doesn't get to poach two defensive CDs from the other tanks (one of which is a very strong cooldown).*

The issue, putting it simply, is that Paladin does not excel in any category whatsoever out of the tanking classes. Even the Enmity Generation Award is firmly in the sweaty grips of Dark Knights and Warriors everywhere.

*I've heard folks say that Paladin's still the king defensively because of Hallowed Ground and Sentinel. If the excellence of a class revolves entirely around two long cooldowns, then that class has got problems.

[Brannigan]

So you're saying that the community's perception inflated an otherwise minor issue? Interesting, I wonder what else that could be applied to.

I'm saying that community perception created an issue out of nothing, because there was no real difference in performance and there was no minor issue to inflate. That is different than paladin's current situation where it is noticeably worse and you are actively hurting your group by choosing it.

[Syzygian]

They're not weak, they're just poorly designed and implemented.

No, raids are poorly designed and implemented. This entire tier has made one tank OP in the truest sense of the term, another tank viable because of the power of a single cooldown and marginally better DPS, and the third tank almost completely ignored.

If they are going to fix their raid design to make DPS, healing, and tanking checks equally important, great. If not, they don't need to buff PLD or DRK (if they buff DRK, PLDs will cry louder, if they buff PLD, it'll overtake DRK), they need to nerf WAR.

[Synestra]

We don't want a monopoly on the primary tank slot though. We just want to be reasonably competitive.

Aye and if anything i would love to do more OT:ing instead always being "forced" to MT(OT usually gets all the fun while MT just sits there ;__; ).

[Brannigan]

Also I have to say I find the idea of paladins being upset because they're "losing their MT spot" laughable. Paladin players are still MTing, they're just doing it on Dark Knight instead.