Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

[Teiren]

No. Not confusing at all. If we will factor in the amount of threat generated per TP will be lower by a great amount if we use nothing but Halone Combo versus maximizing our DPS in which the other 2 tanks is a non-issue. To that we both agree.

I just can't understand why WAR and DRK have multiple AoEs that generate extra enmity while PLDs can't have that perk. WARs can even cross Flash if ever they run out of TP(some people do) so it's easier to face pull trash.

Oh, spend more TP to get the same enmity as well as not being able to focus on non-enmity combos as much as DRK. Duh, I wasn't thinking, haha. Yeah, assuming all enmity multipliers on Rage of Halone/Power Slash/Butcher's Block are the same (and I'm assuming they are: 5x), that certainly is a problem.

Is there testing that someone has posted somewhere to prove that Flash is less enmity than Unleash or Overpower? To be fair, Overpower probably should do a little more enmity because of the huge TP cost. Then again, maybe WAR having no TP problems outside of AoE enmity generation as well as being able to use Flash balances that already?


Btw, there is literally a "Rallying Cry" ability in the game already: http://xivdb.com/?skill/1561/Thrill-of-War
Honestly, a lot of the PVP actions could have been put to good use and retooled as the new job actions in Heavensward, but I can understand why they're wary of enabling them in PVE even in an altered form. I really, really hope that for the next expansion they remove cross-class actions (the whole system is a total failure once you promote to a Job anyway) and replace them with some form of the PVP actions. I thought they'd do that for this expansion, but oh well.

[Duelle]

Btw, there is literally a "Rallying Cry" ability in the game already: http://xivdb.com/?skill/1561/Thrill-of-War
Honestly, a lot of the PVP actions could have been put to good use and retooled as the new job actions in Heavensward, but I can understand why they're wary of enabling them in PVE even in an altered form. I really, really hope that for the next expansion they remove cross-class actions (the whole system is a total failure once you promote to a Job anyway) and replace them with some form of the PVP actions. I thought they'd do that for this expansion, but oh well.

Heh now that's what I call a wasted ability.

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah, assuming all enmity multipliers on Rage of Halone/Power Slash/Butcher's Block are the same (and I'm assuming they are: 5x)...

Is there testing that someone has posted somewhere to prove that Flash is less enmity than Unleash or Overpower?

At current, I believe RoH lags behind the others in enmity multiplier (5x compared to the other two's 5.5x). The excuse for this was that the 2nd step of the enmity combo is used in one of PLD's 2 dps combos, RA, while the other two tanks' non-enmity combos have no enmity component whatsoever, but even Savage Blade similarly has .5x less en-mod than Spinning Slash and Skull Sunder, iirc, severely nerfing it in any content of pure enmity. Personally I'd like to see SB increased to 3.75x (compared to its equivalents' 3.5x) and RoH potency increased to 270 or 280 but enmity mod increased to only to 5.25x (compared to 5.5x), or whatever puts their combined ePot in line with BB and PS combo. If that puts PLD too far ahead in average effective potency over 3 combos or 21 to 24 seconds, however, then maybe even leave SB low, but definitely increase RoH's enmity mod further; they shouldn't have to suffer in burst enmity (comparing without CDs) just because their average enmity is higher -- as long as they're not pulling off the MT when in Sword Oath, that's fine and largely fitting for a PLD.

Flash has basically the same base enmity as Unleash and Overpower. The problem is that it doesn't scale with offensive CDs, while the others do, and cannot crit. As such, while a Warrior with Maim or Dark Knight with Darkside up can tank for 3 equally-geared (to the WAR) Monks each on a different target by simply spamming Overpower or Unleash, a Paladin spamming Flash wouldn't be able to do the same, even with FoF up.

[Teiren]

I was keeping up on the Blitzball blog way back when the game first came out, but that stopped being updated ages ago. So wow, I didn't know that about enmity multipliers. I don't even know what to say. That's so incredibly poor, flawed, and practically illogical that I don't even know where to start. Um, your ideas are good at the very least.

And oh yeah, I forgot that about Flash because it's been a while since I've seriously played PLD. I knew I was forgetting something, ha.

[RapBreon]

I was keeping up on the Blitzball blog way back when the game first came out, but that stopped being updated ages ago. So wow, I didn't know that about enmity multipliers. I don't even know what to say. That's so incredibly poor, flawed, and practically illogical that I don't even know where to start. Um, your ideas are good at the very least.

And oh yeah, I forgot that about Flash because it's been a while since I've seriously played PLD. I knew I was forgetting something, ha.

It made perfect sense back when the classes were designed and implemented. It only makes no sense in the context of HW + a bit of 20/20 hindsight (Savage) exacerbating the problem.

Which I'm a bit uncertain as to why it hasn't been addressed yet; possibly them delaying fixes until 3.1. The problem itself probably wasn't noticeable during the first round of adjustments (focused on the 3 newer classes).

[Teiren]

If a Warrior was using all 3 combos while tanking, I can sort of see why the enmity multipliers had to be higher, yeah. Just crazy how things fall apart so simply, yet I think they can be fixed just as simply too, so that gives me hope.

[Galan]

Surprised no one mentions flashes blind effect which reduces aggro of attacks by others, oh wait raid mobs immune to blind, that don 't help 0.0. They need to rework sheltron imo, i find kinda pointless, already block pretty often without it. When i first saw skill i was like yeah i get to block one full attack, all damage and when i first tested it it was like oh i block with shield YAWN! Then i was psyched at having more rotations of course other rotations had 0 enmity to them so without tons gear i was at times just RoH to keep aggro. Paladin still underwhelming. Wish it wasn't.

[Kenji1134]

Shelltron really needs to be a miniature version of Raw Intuition to be useful.

And its so simple as well, just make Shelltron a buff that guarantees that gives you a 100% block rate for 3 seconds.
That is long enough to make sure a stray AA wont eat it, but typically shorter than most tankbuster casts. That said a well timed 3s 100% block buff would let you block a physical TB and the following AA for a bit of added padding.

Then make Bulwark also add an extra 10% to the amount blocked on successful block when it is active... or just make Bulwark add a 10-15% magic damage reduction buff while its active, to give a bit of extra magic mit on a 3 minute CD.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

Sheltron should restore 50TP.

Bulwark should be 100 block rate and block magic to justify its long CD.

[Sapphidia]

I still feel like Shield Swipe is the number 1 place to apply changes to fix the bulk of paladin's issues.

It's currently 210 potency with x3 threat modifier, pacification, and 40 TP cost. The average potency of a Royal Authority combo is 230 over the 3 GCDs, and the average potency of a Goring/Royal/Royal rotation is between 251 and 256 depending on how much of the goring blade dot you clip. It's a massive DPS loss to fit it in almost anywhere in the rotation (the one exception being as the final GCD on a Fight or Flight with certain skillspeed values). Right now you can pretty much remove shield swipe from your bars and not notice any negative consequence or efficiency loss.

If they made Shield Swipe at least 260 potency it would always be a DPS increase to use, and you'd pretty much want to spam it in sequence if it popped lots due to back to back blocks. Making it x5 threat modifier would hugely increase the threat when tanking and enable Paladins to much more easily run in Sword Oath without a ninja and without relying on Halone spam. Plus, being a button you'll be wanting to press as often as possible you'll solve a lot of the paladin's TP issues when tanking. In addition, with Shield Swipe suddenly being a button you'd want to press, Sheltron and Bulwark gain extra utility as they can force procs.

So yes. Buffing Shield Swipe to 260 potency (or higher), x5 threat, and maybe making it 20 or 30 TP, though 40 is fine, would help a HUGE amount. It wouldn't solve Paladin TP issues when NOT tanking but it's rare a paladin dps's a target for 3 minutes without taking a single hit that they might block. The only thing this wouldn't really solve is fights where htere's literally -nothing- to block, such as main tanking A4. Maybe this is more a factor of just allowing "magical auto attacks" to be blocked and parried.

As an aside, I feel giving Shield Swipe the Slashing Debuff instead of Pacification would also solve the issue of PLD/DRK lineups being viable without a ninja, though this is a minor concern.