Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

[Teiren]

Sure... If I only burn my entire TP load spamming Rage of Halone combo as MT, like ARR, I wouldn't worry DPS or Healers to catch up on threat. But since PLDs are now given weapon skills that does not have increased enmity slapped into them, we, at the very least, be given the resources to actually use it without worrying that we will run out of TP for our enmity combo.

Er sorry, maybe I was being confusing? Rage of Halone combo is just as much TP as the other combos, and I agree with you. I meant to say that I disagree completely with the current TP design for all Jobs and that it hurts Paladin the most because of no TP Regeneration/Reduction action.

There's no real TP management outside of limiting AoE. TP is simply: Use until empty, then have your DPS cut in half or worse. However, for a situation like Ravana Extreme where you know you absolutely do not want to run out of TP during Scorpion Avatar, that's different. That is an interesting choice to save TP if you're low, but situations like that are the exception by far. I would certainly like to see a lot more fights like Ravana.

No, DRK runs out just as fast as paladin. The buff to blood weapon was to ensure they didn't run out faster than PLD when using it due to the attack speed buff. DRK and PLD are in the same spot in regards to tp issues.

If you never drop Grit, that's true, but with Blood Weapon if you're using TP 10% more often while using 20% less TP, is that not a net gain? Maybe I'm missing something.

[Habien]

DRK still runs out of TP eventually, though it takes a long time like the other Disciples of War except Paladin.

No, DRK runs out just as fast as paladin. The buff to blood weapon was to ensure they didn't run out faster than PLD when using it due to the attack speed buff. DRK and PLD are in the same spot in regards to tp issues.

[Brannigan]

Honestly the only thing DRK really needs is a way to mitigate physical hits more frequently. That way they can actually make a boss like Twintania again, who Death Sentences on like a 35 second cd. WAR and PLD can keep up with that just fine now, but Dark would get spanked like a paladin in a4s. Paladin sits out of that fight for other reasons, but I don't want the "useless tank" to just flip flop every patch.

A little bit more utility as DRK OT would be nice too but I don't know what they could do.

The only fix i could think of to Sheltron...

I really like actually having to time it between autos right now. Feels great when you hit it. The best fix for Sheltron IMO is just to make Shield Swipe great.

[Isius]

Mmm, seems my Sheltron idea is unfavored, even though I think the change would be internesting, but oh well.

But if Sheltron does stay the same it should remain as a skill shot, since it is overpowered versus high physical dmg, and would only get more powerful in later patches with better shields. So yeah, you have learn when to weave it between enemy autos so Sheltron eats a phy tankbuster instead, and it really shouldn't give tp too. Skill is already really good, it should not be a everything button.

But the reason I think SE gave War a Tp regen, and nothing to drk/pld is because war only has one resource to use, tp. While drk/pld have two resources tp, and mp. So I think it's fair for war to have a tp regen, but on the subject if they get too much tp regen capability might be another matter, one which I don't want to debate on since I am not a seasoned war player.

Imo changes Pld really needs atm is enimty increase from Halone combo or shield swipe. I'll take either one, shield swipe buffed so it is not a dps loss, where it acts like a rng dmg increase when pld is in shield oath mting(Pld does not need ot dps increase), shield bash tp cost reduced if it means reducing its stun time for lower cost I will take it, clemancy/stoneskin cast time reduced, divine veil's cd reduced or rework the skill to be different then what it is now, and a buff to changing Oaths whether it becomes ogcd, but still has mp cost, and interrupts combos, or is on gcd, cost mp, but doesn't interrupt combos. I will take either one. Just not all 3 affecting pld negatively like it does now. These are changes I would like to see for Pld in 3.1 while not overhauling the class, but keeping PLD playstyle largely the same.

*I would still like to see Clemancy to possibly being a HoT/Regen skill instead, maybe?

EDIT
---Forgot to add this one, but Spirits Within shouldn't lose potency with the less hp a Pld has...Come on! I am a tank of course I am going to get hit in the face, and not have full health most of the time. A middle finger to Pld tanks.---
http://www.ffxivinfo.com/job/paladin...spirits-within

[SwordCoheir]

snip

I would like Sheltron to be more proactive like it's 1.0 predecessor Aegis Boon at the very least negate an entire attack rather than just partial damage, though I wouldn't complain if it healed like Aegis Boon did either.

I don't think WAR's TP regen had anything to do with PLD or DRK either, I think they added it to let WAR's OP spam more often, but the infinite single target TP was more of an oversight than intended design.

Frankly, the enmity modifier adjustments are required just so PLD can function at the minimal level of it's most basic role. The rest of the holes in it's build still need to be addressed otherwise nothing will change. Like I said a while back, we're suffering from WAR's 2.0 syndrome atm. We've now got options that let us do more than just spam 1-2-3 all day long, but the enmity modifiers we're never addressed for the new found options where WAR got theirs way back in 2.1.

As for Shield Swipe, it needs to be at a minimum 250 potency to be worthwhile, and perhaps a secondary effect of increased enmity against multiple targets (like you knocked your opponent into other enemies enraging them) to at least put them more on par with AoE threat and force more use out of the ability.

Just to add some extra ideas.

Tempered Will- Prevents knockback and removes Heavy/Bind effects. All party members in a cone behind the PLD will be immune to knockback.

Convalesence- Increases HP recovery by 30% for 20 seconds. Any health recovered over the PLD's Max HP heals all nearby party members for that amount. (IE: If your WHM heals for 900 more than your maximum HP all nearby party members get healed for 900 each.)

[Freyyy]

Convalesence- Increases HP recovery by 30% for 20 seconds. Any health recovered over the PLD's Max HP heals all nearby party members for that amount. (IE: If your WHM heals for 900 more than your maximum HP all nearby party members get healed for 900 each.)

No fucking way. That's insanely OP.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

I'd concede a few small numerical adjustments but unlike PLD, DRK is functioning 100% as intended. It sounds like you just don't enjoy the job.

DrK problems:

1. Grit cost is insane. The GCD penalty is more than enough for the instant 20% mitigation.

2. DA Dark Dance, and Dark Dance in general, is useless outside of lolfaceroll tomb grinding. DrK has been designed around parry with Low Blow procs, Reprisal procs, and Blood Price. Evasion is counter-intuitive to the entire build of DrK.

3. Outside of more DPS than PLD they really dont bring anything to the table in the OT roll. If you have a MNK their one OT utility is useless.

4. DA Power Slash is a joke. It is roughly the same emnity as a DA Carve and Spit and should never be used.

5. No real raid utility. This is especially highlighted by the PLD/DrK combo. Their best and unique utility is gated behind a proc that requires them to be MTing and cannot have 100% uptime.

6. Physical mitigation issues. Try tanking Twintania while synced. Ravana is another good example. Any fight that has multiple physical cleaves or lots of trash DrK's defensive faults come to light. Really the only way a DrK can mitigate physical busters is with Shadow Wall (which is on too long of a CD) and Shadow Skin. Dark Dance is not reliable and Foresight is lol.

7. Shoehorned skills. Sole Survivor? Come on SE, you can do better than that. DA unmend? Only useful when tanking trash.

Now none of these issues are as crippling as PLDs problems but they are real and need to be addressed. I have a hard time agreeing that DrK is functioning as intended and I think most people are running them because 1. They aren't a PLD and 2. They wont hinder your LB. Honestly, would you take a DrK over double WAR if LB penalty didn't exist? If the answer is yes (it should be), then there is a problem with the class. It sounds to me like you really enjoy the job and are trying to look only at the positives the class brings (Being the less of two evils should not be seen as a positive).

[ArdorGrey]

DrK problems:
snip

1. Drk's have highest damage in tank stance and can throw up blood weapon as soon as grit is dropped, which more than compensates for the activation cost so long as you don't go DA LOLham and ignore your mp. I used to agree with this. Then I learned how to manage mp.

2. Totally agree.

3. Somewhat agree

4. The issue with this is that the aggro modifier would have to be ludicrous to make it worth using DA on power slash instead of souleater or CaS. It's questionable design but hardly something so horridly broken it needs a massive rebuild. A slight buff wouldn't change anything, a massive buff would shoehorn them even more into MT role and also make aggro management not really a thing at all.

5. somewhat agree, but this is also really heavily tied with 3, not sure it needed its own denomination.

6. Somewhat agree. Funny enough I think buffing dark dance uptime and DA dark dance effects would solve 2 and 6 and somewhat address 5 all in one blow. Hence why I don't agree with doom and gloom proclamations that the end is nigh unless radical restructuring is done.

7. Don't agree at all. Sole survivor is an awesome skill that hugely rewards raid awareness and helps you maintain dps stance uptime while MTing. if you communicate with your dps a little to create an opportunity for you to mercy stroke a soul survivor, the payoff is nuts. People talk about how warrior skill cap isn't a thing because if you're running savage you're talking about playing at the peak of skill anyway, this skill is stupid powerful if you properly exploit it. Having problems with grits prohibitive mp cost? Learn when to use this.

[Freyyy]

snip

This guy nailed it.

DRK only needs a tiny bit of love in the raid utility (especially when OTing) and physical mitigation domains. DA Dark Dance needs something. It's nowhere near as desperate as PLD but as much as I love the job, I have to admit that DRK is still imperfect and kind of lackluster in some aspects, it just perfectly fits the current end-game raiding meta and that's why almost everyone runs a DRK instead of PLD as MT. If in future patches we get a fight like T5 with fast physical tank busters all the time (DS was every 35sec), DRK is gonna have a real hard time dealing with it compared to the other tanks. We just don't have a fight like that yet.

[Brannigan]

DrK problems:

7. Shoehorned skills. Sole Survivor? Come on SE, you can do better than that. DA unmend? Only useful when tanking trash.

Protip: If you're doing the "ignore the straf dolls and let them cast weeblewobble" strat on A4S you can put Sole Survivor on them. When they finish casting, they'll suck out your MP and then die, giving you 20% mp and HP back. If the timing of it hits right your Darkside doesn't even drop. There's like two boss fights at level 60 that have no adds - 1st boss of Fractal and 2nd boss of Neverreap.

Even in Coil, there's only like ADS who doesn't have adds. Kaliya doesn't have many, but they're there. I think every primal has adds too.

Also regarding DA Dark Dance, I think it really depends on whether or not they allow you to keep evading monsters. That skill is retarded broken in A4S and dungeons but that doesn't really justify its existence. I think at the least they could keep the evasion and tack on some extra parry rate or power or lower the cooldown when you DA it. Maybe have it give you a guaranteed parry or two when you Dark Arts it. Something.