A Part, and yet Apart

[JeniLinsky]

I've been playing the 2.* MSQ, trying to get an alternate character to the point she can access Ishgard. A couple of things have struck me as I played through it.

1) Alphinaud is a prick. He muscles his way into the structure of the Scions, takes over Minfilia's role as communicant to the movers and shakers of Eorzea, and treats the Warrior of Light as his own, personal errand girl. He feels no apparent shame at evesdropping outside Minfilia's door, or bursting through said door when someone says something interesting. He puts together a private army, answerable to no one, and then loses control over it (and who didn't see that coming? (Well, okay; I didn't... I expected him to betray us all, and turn out to be the villain behind the scenes of everything)). If I could toss one person off the high bridge in Highbridge, it would be Alphinaud. If I could toss two people off, Illbred (Ilberd) would join him on his journey to the bottom.

2) Of the primary Scions with whom we interact, the inner circle are apparently all Sharlayans, save only Minfilia (who has the snooty accent, but not the tatoos) and us. (Unless your personal headcannon backstory has you from Sharlayan, in which case, never mind). This creates a sort of distancing effect, where we, the Warrior of Light, is treated as a dumb weapon, not smart enough to understand the complicated talk of the grownups. I've grown to hate them all.

3) In the lead up to the instanced fight on Ishgard's bridge, behind the Gates of Judgement, there's a meeting of the inner circle of the Scions, including us. The group decides as a whole to get involved in the Ishgard-Dravania war. Then Minfilia turns to us, and says, "It's a dangerous road, but I hope you'll walk it with us to the end."

Wait... what? Wasn't I just right here, helping decide that we were going to do this? And isn't "we" in this case mostly me making with the sticking the weapons into dragons? Why would she need to reconfirm my participation? Unless, of course, she really sees us as an outsider. A Scion in name, but not in fact. A weapon with an inconvenient mind of her own.

4) Although we recruit Alphinaud's private little army, no one offers us a uniform, or even a pot of ultramarine dye.

The Scions use us, but they don't include us.

[CyrilLucifer]

Well, since you said alt, I assume you've done Heavensward already. But in case others haven't, here's my spoiler warning.

I, too, was uncomfortable and annoyed with Alphinaud's rather arrogant actions in 2.X. He was really starting to grate me. I think I finally forgave him by the time Ravana rolled around and Estinien was making jokes about he worried like a maid about you. I also appreciated him trying to learn the more physical jobs, like gathering firewood.

The whole "use but don't include" does seem to be a bit of a plot point. It's mentioned specifically by Thordan that you are everyone's tool. Also, note that when Minfilia leaves at the end of those particular 2.55 events, she saves you not because you are a friend or a fellow scion, but because, and this is a direct quote: you are hope. I wouldn't be surprised if the idea that you are simply everyone's weapon/tool was expanded on at a later point. Beyond the whole DRK quest set, that is, which already shows the WoL's reaction to it, rather than the Scions'.

That being said, Minfilia and you do seem to hold your private meetings together, discussing the Echo and its implications when no one else is around. She considers you emotional support, as well. I'd say your relationship with Minfilia was developing well, but I definitely agree that I didn't really feel it as deeply with everyone else before Heavensward, which put more emphasis on your relationship with your companions.

[Yaichiro]

Alphinaud acknowledged his misgivings and that he was getting ahead of himself at the end of ARR and post Heavensward. Unlike other scions you're the warrior of light an ancient legend existed to thwart enemies and save people so in an essence you're the hope and perhaps the tool for them that will be used to save them. If you're interested about that you might want to play dark knight quests until level 50 quest which shed some light on your true feeling of becoming the warrior of light and people attitude towards you.

What is really interesting is what king Thordan said in the last quest of Heavensward questioning your existence and the power you hold. My theory on this is that you're actually the manifestation of what the Ascians trying to summon or worship but in its premature form and that's why you're being totally passive only to rise as a damned god of destruction.

[JeniLinsky]

Yes; C'mell has gotten through all current MSQ stuff. It's funny... when I was doing the 2.* stuff at C'mell, it seemed to come in dribs and drabs, with long pauses between. Doing them on my alt, however, has me thinking, "Gee whiz, batman! Doesn't this ever end?!"

[Kaiser-Ace]

Alphinode was always annoyingly pretentious (Glade Eistenian busted his reinfliting bubble in 3.0 because I certainly would of if given the choice)

As far as Minfilia, I think subbtle changes may be between Male/Female dialog (or maybe it's just me) but Minfilia seems to Lean on the MC alot starting in 2.2 after the first encounter with Elidibus in 2.1. So she at least sees us as a cofidant if not a friend.

Thancred seems to back you up alot after you save him because we saved his ass big time.

And Y'shtola seems to have grown a sense of awe towards us as of 3.0's conclusion.

Yda being the Ditz she is and Papalymo putting up with her all the time seems to make them alot more relaxed and friendly.

And Uriange (as a legacy player at least) seems to almost KNOW we're the same WoL from Cartenou.

Also, as a DRG, I loved the "We Got This Bro" vibe Eistenian has in certain CSs.

[Cilia]

Just to rebut:

1. Alphinaud isn't really a prick IMO. He's hungry for glory and proud, but he has the best intentions at heart (though you know what they say about good intentions). While he does kind of force his way into the narrative, it's after the Garlean raid and most of the Scions are being held captive or at a loss as to what to do - and Alphinaud steps up to the plate to pull everyone together and keep the mission alive. The problem is that, aside from his pride, he never really steps down; after Minfilia and co. are rescued he continues to play the diplomat, to the point he is almost the de facto leader of the Scions with his Crystal Braves. Well, pride before the fall...

2. Correct; most of the Scions are Sharlayan. This goes back to 1.x, where Minfilia led the Path of the Twelve and Louisoix the Circle of Knowing; the former was mostly native Eorzeans, while the latter was a group of Sharlayan mavericks who came to Eorzea to try and prepare people for the Calamity. In the aftermath of the Calamity and Louisoix's "death," the two groups merged into the Scions of the Seventh Dawn we know today. Given there were far fewer prominent NPCs that were members of the Path of the Twelve, well... it's not surprising most of the Scions hail from Sharlayan.

They do all treat you like a dumb weapon though, something your shadow points out following the climactic confrontation of the DRK 50 quest. (Well, more like everyone treats you like that, but...) Lots of characters point this out; while he might be a total dirtbag, Ilberd is correct when he says that others are just using you as a tool. That hits a bit close to home, especially if you've done the DRK 50 quest.

3. Yeah, they include you in the discussion, but I figured they were letting you back out if you so chose. They don't want you to feel obligated, I don't think, though we of course are because we're that kind of hero. And, of course, being the singular most skilled combatant we are going to be doing the lion's share of the fighting. If we do nothing we will indirectly be responsible for the razing of Ishgard; if we help out, we're just someone's tool to be used and disposed of when we're no longer convenient to use. Ah, the dilemma of playing the hero...

4. Yeah, I totes wanted a Crystal Braves uniform too. Those things must be super-expensive or cost a lot to dry clean, or something.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we aren't the real protagonist of XIV. That role shifts around and is carried by various people. We're just muscle, a tool to make sure things others want to happen comes to pass. We're not really an outsider to the Scions, at least not after the conclusion of 2.0 but we are not part of the inner circle beyond our use as an unstoppable force to point at threats.

... man, playing DRK really makes you see the ugly truths you'd rather avert your eyes from.

[Fenral]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we aren't the real protagonist of XIV. That role shifts around and is carried by various people. We're just muscle, a tool to make sure things others want to happen comes to pass.

But aside from DRK, pretty much every story bends over backwards to tell you that you are the hero, the beacon of hope, the last light, and so forth. The entire story exists to stress upon you the importance of your role in shaping the future of Eorzea, which you accept because you are a doormat with no individual will you are the hero. Regardless of the technicalities of the writing, FFXIV is very much constructed to make you into the most important person in Eorzea.

There's prime deconstruction fuel in there, but thus far we're still plodding through the main story with alarmingly less genre awareness then is typical for a 21st century JRPG.

[Cilia]

. . . My bigger issue with the Scions is why none of the other Echo holders, like Arenvald, ever help out with this Primal thing.

They probably aren't skilled combatants like we are. Our sheer martial (or magical) prowess is our main asset in fights against primals; the Echo just prevents us from being tempered. Ordinary people can and have defeated primals in the past before, it just takes human wave tactics to exhaust the primal's ability to temper before the real fighters can go up against the primal.

Put bluntly, even with the Echo a primal will still murder your ass if you can't fight. *glares at Minfilia*

snip

True but protagonist != hero. This is common, but not always the case. While we do make everything better, for most intents and purposes we aren't really a character; we get almost no characterization in the MSQ and are simply treated as the standard humble doormat of a silent protagonist. In almost every single class / job quest you're just a spectator to the story of others. This is even true of most of the MSQ!

You're the hero, the unstoppable force to point at whatever is threatening Eorzean peace this week... but that's all you are. You aren't really the protagonist of anything because only one story in the game is really your story. The rest are about someone else. While RPGs do generally avoid the "paragon" archetype these days, the problem is that XIV is an MMO... and thus every PC has to be interchangeable. It's a limitation that comes with adding MMO to the RPG. You do influence events, but take one Warrior of Light out and plug another one in, and the story would continue rolling with no changes at all. Hell, if the Echo weren't a damn-near necessity for fighting primals and the soldiers were competent, you could almost take the Warrior of Light out of the story and it would spin on none the wiser.

[fm_fenrir]

Hell, if the Echo weren't a damn-near necessity for fighting primals and the soldiers were competent, you could almost take the Warrior of Light out of the story and it would spin on none the wiser.

The soldiers are competent though. The main difference is that without Hydaelyn's crystalline boost, they just can't exceed mortal limits like the WOL can. Most of the job quests are to the tune of "We're already doing this military operation, but since you're an invincible murder machine, can you help us out?".

You're right, however, that if the WOL just decided to dance a jig while fireballs rained on the field, nothing would change about the outcome of any of the quests or missions. There would just be a lot more NPC casualties than the story claims.

[Fenral]

you could almost take the Warrior of Light out of the story and it would spin on none the wiser.

But that's just it, the entire universe is constructed in such a way that our presence is a necessity for even the tiniest of fetch quests.

(spoilers for everything up through 3.0)

Even the "main characters" we meet are basically presented as one of two flavors. On one side you have your G'rahas, who have an entire character arc dedicated to discovering that they are, in fact, incapable of accomplishing anything, and accepting that and leaving everything up to the real hero is portrayed as a positive development. Because it's not about him, it's about us, and how great we are.

On the flipside, you get your Estiniens and your Ysayles. They have arcs about doing things on their own, having their own changes they want to bring about in the world, but in not relying on us, they end up punished by the very construction of the universe, ultimately leaving their tasks for us to finish for them anyway.

Alisaie is the only character in the middle of all this, but she gets a pass because while she wants to be a hero like us, she parts with us at a level that still isn't a threat to our uncontested superiority.

But in general, arguing it could spin on without us is pointless, because the universe itself is constructed to impress upon the player how meaningful their contribution is. It all comes back to the FF1 epilogue scroll: "The real hero is YOU."