Thread: The Dark Divinity 3.0

Originally Posted by myahele

Interestingly enough, Odin is an Eikon, something that's beyond even a Primal:

So that might explain his uniqueness among primals. As far as I know, Odin is his Sword and will then temper anyone who wields it. From there he slowly saps the environment of Aether for himself.

I have read the dialogue, and spoken to that little spawn about it during the extreme Rav and Bis trials (you can ask him to elaborate after the initial conversation); however, he never once offers a different definition for the terms "Eikon" and "Primal."They both mean, simply, "God like beings." If anything, it only seems to imply that "Eikon" is the term that the Allagan and Garlean Empires use to refer to Primals. Keep in mind that, in past dialogue of the 2.0 MSQ, Gaius Van Baelsar refers to all of the Primals in Eorzea as "Eikons,"on a couple of occasions. It has only been in recent dialogue in which the Eikons are referred to as a stronger class of primal. So, if anything, we can stretch that term only so far as to extend to Elder Primals, including Bahamut, Odin, Alexander, and (if we're lucky), future primals such as Ark or Ozma.

I have, however, found it extremely odd that Odin is referred to as an elder primal and eikon in the dialogue of the game, yet has no independent Raid and a relatively weak Trial. The lore about him constantly trying to find Urth is the only explanation for why he has no raid, but it's a poor one, in my opinion. He should have a raid, or, at the absolute least, a Savage level Trial.

He is certainly unique among elder primals though, not only from a game mechanic perspective. Unlike Bahamut and Alexander, he has no followers who worship him. His sword seems to act as his medium and temper/possess those who come into contact with it, but the only other primal who uses a human body as a medium is Shiva, and she is not an elder primal. Nor does she completely possess and destroy the will of her host as Odin does, or seems to.

Originally Posted by myahele

Interestingly enough, Odin is an Eikon, something that's beyond even a Primal:

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Lo...er:Gods_of_Eld

So that might explain his uniqueness among primals. As far as I know, Odin is his Sword and will then temper anyone who wields it. From there he slowly saps the environment of Aether for himself.

Eikon is just another word for primals. This was confirmed in the dev chat.

Originally Posted by Berethos

Notice that he doesn't say it's the name used by the Allagans to refer to summoned beings, just simply godlike beings, while also flat out saying he's not talking about the primals we've encountered so far. With Fernhalwes' post for context, it seems he's not 100% in his knowledge of these things, so it has me wondering why he believes they are different enough to be separate beings when according to the lore wrap up transcript they are at least in the same class of beings.

I'm not convinced that they are different at all.

He does explicitly state that there is a difference between Primals and Eikons; however, the little spawn fails to elaborate on any distinction in definition. Consider that "Eikon" simply means: "God like beings." What does "Primal" mean? Also, "God like beings." I don't recall summoning being a part of either definition, but nor is it necessarily absent from either definition. So, really, there is no difference in definition between Eikon or Primal. The only distinction that the spawn makes is that they are god like beings that we have not yet been acquainted with, but that would make sense, given that we have not been to Allag (or at least not seen any summons related to the Allagans except for Bahamut, who, I should point out, was not included in the spawn's list of Primals that we've been acquainted with) or the Garlean Empire.

As far as I can tell, the term "Eikon" is completely interchangeable with "Primal," and that spawn is simply using the term Eikon to refer to primals we have not yet met and are from a different Geographical origin. Basically, it seems to be a geographical distinction only. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When talking about Primals from Allag or Garlea (is that right? Garland? Garleand? I dunno), use the term Eikon.

That being said, I have noticed one distinct difference common to both "Elder Primals" that is not common among the normal Primals we have faced in the MSQ. The spawn (in case you hadn't picked up on this yet, this is the term I use for children, in this case that little masked freak with a long name) talks about the Primals we know in terms of the elements they relate to. All of the Lesser Primals have one or two elements that they are attuned with. Odin, Bahamut, and Alexander (the only three "Elder Primals" that we are currently aware of) do not. They are non-elemental creatures (which is why I pointed out Ark and Ozma earlier. I was trying to think of Powerful non-elemental Summons). That being said, both Bahamut and Alexander have followers who summoned them. Odin is the only odd Primal out.

The part about this that really gets the gears turning is the notion that Odin's true body is locked away somewhere else, and that only the sword was locked in Urth's Fount. If that's true, then it raises the question as to if Odin is, in fact, a Primal/Eikon at all.

This just makes me fall back to my previous theory that Odin is, quite simply, a Super Powered warrior whom, like the Warriors of Light, got so strong he crossed the threshold of attaining God-like powers (hence the term "Eikon" being applied to him). If that's true, than it's not even certain that the sword Zentetsuken is a Primal. The notes only refer to it as being "cursed" and having a corrupting influence.
Possible spoilers for those who have not completed MSQ.

I can see this feeding into the future lore of the story for a couple of reasons:

The first is the notion of the "Warrior of Darkness" who appears at the end of 3.0 MSQ. The Ascion who introduces this warrior does so because he says the balance must be restored. The Warrior of Light has grown too strong, strong enough to cross into the realm of the gods, and that the balance must be kept. Intro Warrior of Darkness.

From this we gain two facts. The first is that it is possible for a mortal to cross the threshold of "God-Like powers." This is pretty much irrefutable. It comes straight from the Ascion's lips and, lets be honest, we've been whopping so-called "God's" butts all up and down their own castles. The second fact is that mortal warriors crossing the threshold of God-like powers can go in one of two ways, Light or Dark. The constant struggle between the two is actually given physical shape in the Dark Knight lvl 50 quest line. So, I'd say it's safe to assume this is part of the lore.

It is possible, lore wise, that Odin really was no different than us, a Warrior crossing the threshold of attaining "God-Like Power," but, when he got to the cusp of crossing the line, he did so using the Dark side of his soul, as he was corrupted by Zantetsuken's influence.

Originally Posted by Februs

The part about this that really gets the gears turning is the notion that Odin's true body is locked away somewhere else, and that only the sword was locked in Urth's Fount. If that's true, then it raises the question as to if Odin is, in fact, a Primal/Eikon at all.

This just makes me fall back to my previous theory that Odin is, quite simply, a Super Powered warrior whom, like the Warriors of Light, got so strong he crossed the threshold of attaining God-like powers (hence the term "Eikon" being applied to him). If that's true, than it's not even certain that the sword Zentetsuken is a Primal. The notes only refer to it as being "cursed" and having a corrupting influence.
Possible spoilers for those who have not completed MSQ.

Wasn't Zantetsuken brought to Eorzea by an au ra?

I have to think it's an eikon, and Odin is a primal summoned by it.

Originally Posted by Daralii

Wasn't Zantetsuken brought to Eorzea by an au ra?

I have to think it's an eikon, and Odin is a primal summoned by it.

As Koji explained, Odin was an Allagan warrior who was heading to Eorzea to save Urth (who was not the Allagan hero we thought she was, at least to the Allagan royalty), and during his travels he found Zantetsuken and it consumed him (more or less). He ended up killing Urth, and was later sealed by Wiyu.

So... He found Zantetsuken somewhere between northern Ilsabard and the Shroud on Aldenard. The sword may simply have a traditionally Doman name and so everyone assumed it was a Raen weapon, but it is stated to be an Eikon, so I doubt it was created by anyone of this world.

The part that relates to the sword is the part that is a little more difficult to wrap our heads around (given that it has, apparently, been running around by itself, possessing bodies for the sake of killing stuff). The easiest way to explain the sword is to simply say that it is a Primal. After all, it can temper (or possess) people, it can cut pretty much anything, and it has a will of its own... sort of... a mix of wills between Odin and it, would be my bet. It is this mix, though, that makes me think the Sword might have a different connection to the Lore of the game.

For one, every weapon in the game has a means of becoming attuned to it's wielder. The system has been in place since forever. Spirit bonding. It could be that Zantetsuken is simply a supremely powerful sword that has been completely Spirit Bonded to Odin. For this reason, whenever it gets a new body, it fashions that body to Odin's likeness and will because of the bond they share. A Spirit bonded weapon cannot be used by another person. No matter who the sword possesses, it has to turn them into Odin.

Another interesting, and disturbing, thought is that Zantetsuken was forged the same way the Zodiac Zeta Weapons were forged. It has already been established in the lore that the original relic weapons from back in the day could never have been used by anyone other than their original owners because they had developed a sense of consciousness. They had a will. The Zeta questline had us reproduce the result by distinctly forging each section of the weapon's consciousness using mahatma. They became more than just weapons. They, supposedly, had minds of their own.

It could be that our Zeta weapons are one step shy of being exactly like Zentetsuken, or that the original zodiac weapons of eld (if they are still out there somewhere) could be like Zentetsuken... Or that Zentetsuken is one of the original Zodiac weapons. Given that we don't know the origin of the blade, or who used it first (as we know it was not Odin's originally), it is entirely possible that Zentetsuken is a Zodiac Weapon of the original Zodiac Braves, which may have lore implications for any future Relic Quests, if they make a new relic.