The Dark Divinity 3.0

**Daralii** · 09-21-2015 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Februs

The part about this that really gets the gears turning is the notion that Odin's true body is locked away somewhere else, and that only the sword was locked in Urth's Fount. If that's true, then it raises the question as to if Odin is, in fact, a Primal/Eikon at all.

This just makes me fall back to my previous theory that Odin is, quite simply, a Super Powered warrior whom, like the Warriors of Light, got so strong he crossed the threshold of attaining God-like powers (hence the term "Eikon" being applied to him). If that's true, than it's not even certain that the sword Zentetsuken is a Primal. The notes only refer to it as being "cursed" and having a corrupting influence.
Possible spoilers for those who have not completed MSQ.

Wasn't Zantetsuken brought to Eorzea by an au ra?

I have to think it's an eikon, and Odin is a primal summoned by it.

**myahele** · 09-21-2015 07:29 AM

Once a Primal has been manifested through the prayer of at least one individual that Primal can pretty much exists indefinitely via feeding on aether. It is only when they're defeated and go back to aether/lifestream is when they need to be re-summoned by worshipper(s). Worshippers is just a quick and easy powerboost

In other words, the sword itself is the Primal. Since nobody knows that, everyone focuses of the body it's controlling but not the sword itself. Once Odin is defeated the sword remains for then someone to wield it and the cycle continues. That's why it was sealed by Wiyu because she found out it's seacret eventually.

Aside from that, all we know is that the sword is of Othard/ Au Ra origin. Assuming that the sword has always tempered people then maybe the Original Odin possessed the echo and through that, was able to harness it's power?

**WyrahFhurrst** · 09-21-2015 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Daralii

Wasn't Zantetsuken brought to Eorzea by an au ra?

I have to think it's an eikon, and Odin is a primal summoned by it.

As Koji explained, Odin was an Allagan warrior who was heading to Eorzea to save Urth (who was not the Allagan hero we thought she was, at least to the Allagan royalty), and during his travels he found Zantetsuken and it consumed him (more or less). He ended up killing Urth, and was later sealed by Wiyu.

So... He found Zantetsuken somewhere between northern Ilsabard and the Shroud on Aldenard. The sword may simply have a traditionally Doman name and so everyone assumed it was a Raen weapon, but it is stated to be an Eikon, so I doubt it was created by anyone of this world.

**Harz** · 09-21-2015 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

As Koji explained, Odin was an Allagan warrior who was heading to Eorzea to save Urth (who was not the Allagan hero we thought she was, at least to the Allagan royalty), and during his travels he found Zantetsuken and it consumed him (more or less). He ended up killing Urth, and was later sealed by Wiyu.

So... He found Zantetsuken somewhere between northern Ilsabard and the Shroud on Aldenard. The sword may simply have a traditionally Doman name and so everyone assumed it was a Raen weapon, but it is stated to be an Eikon, so I doubt it was created by anyone of this world.

Slight correction, he was a 'northern' hero, who came to save Urth from the Allagans.

**Februs** · 09-21-2015 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by myahele

Aside from that, all we know is that the sword is of Othard/ Au Ra origin. Assuming that the sword has always tempered people then maybe the Original Odin possessed the echo and through that, was able to harness it's power?

It's hard to say for sure, given how little we know about the Othard and Au Ra. Saying the sword is the primal is certainly the easiest explanation, but who summoned it in the first place? and why is it so abnormal?

For one, it seems to have no will of it's own other than to seek out worthy opponents. Once it has fashioned itself a new Odin body, the body seems to have control. It can walk and talk and doesn't really bother anyone if left alone (and that's the weird part). If the sword is a primal and it's singular focus is combat, than why doesn't it actively seek out opponents or have some sort of larger agenda? ( Side note: from a gameplay standpoint, could you imagine if Odin ran around actively looking for players to kill every time his FATE popped up? That would probably scare the hell out of a lot of players lol.) Further, why does it always make its body to resemble Odin?

I think the main mystery of Odin and any future Odin content will be the unusual relationship between the body and sword.

**Februs** · 09-21-2015 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

The sword may simply have a traditionally Doman name and so everyone assumed it was a Raen weapon, but it is stated to be an Eikon, so I doubt it was created by anyone of this world.

That's difficult to say with certainty as well. It has actually not been blatantly stated that Zantetsuken is a Primal. It has been heavily implied that it is (with the Dark Divinity story line), but there has been no official statement that I know of that says it is for sure.The only official word I've seen on the topic has stated that Odin is an Elder Primal... but now it seems he may not be and has a body in hibernation somewhere. Everything has gotten turned around lately. As far as Zantetsuken is concerned, the only notes I've seen on it were in that thread that someone posted above, and even in that the developer states that it is a "cursed sword" that corrupted Odin.

Right now, it is the safest bet to assume that it is a Primal. It certainly answers the most questions if we assume that it is; however, there is still a lot more unexplained questions if we assume that Zantetsuken is the Primal. Namely, why does it seem to have no will of it's own? As soon as it makes itself an Odin copy, the copy takes over. This Primal seems to have no objective or goal of it's own. The Odin copy wants to find Urth, but the Zantetsuken has no voice and does nothing but allow Odin to wield it. Further, who summoned it originally and why does it seem to have an unbreakable bond to Odin? (it never looks like anyone else. That's why I said Spirit bond, cuz' I got no other idea as to why Odin and Zantetsuken are so strongly tied to one another.)

Also, Urth is not dead. Odin is still looking for her... but he also, supposedly, is sealed somewhere. So, there's a lot of ambiguity as to why a copy of Odin would still be seeking Urth, especially if that copy is actually a Primal.

**Kaiser-Ace** · 09-21-2015 12:10 PM

Here's a thought. Urth is dead and Odin just doesn't realize that because around 5000-8000 years have passed since Wiyu sealed him in crystal.

He can't find her cause she died during the time of Allage.

**Harz** · 09-21-2015 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Februs

That's difficult to say with certainty as well. It has actually not been blatantly stated that Zantetsuken is a Primal. It has been heavily implied that it is (with the Dark Divinity story line), but there has been no official statement that I know of that says it is for sure.The only official word I've seen on the topic has stated that Odin is an Elder Primal... but now it seems he may not be and has a body in hibernation somewhere. Everything has gotten turned around lately. As far as Zantetsuken is concerned, the only notes I've seen on it were in that thread that someone posted above, and even in that the developer states that it is a "cursed sword" that corrupted Odin.

Right now, it is the safest bet to assume that it is a Primal. It certainly answers the most questions if we assume that it is; however, there is still a lot more unexplained questions if we assume that Zantetsuken is the Primal. Namely, why does it seem to have no will of it's own? As soon as it makes itself an Odin copy, the copy takes over. This Primal seems to have no objective or goal of it's own. The Odin copy wants to find Urth, but the Zantetsuken has no voice and does nothing but allow Odin to wield it. Further, who summoned it originally and why does it seem to have an unbreakable bond to Odin? (it never looks like anyone else. That's why I said Spirit bond, cuz' I got no other idea as to why Odin and Zantetsuken are so strongly tied to one another.)

Also, Urth is not dead. Odin is still looking for her... but he also, supposedly, is sealed somewhere. So, there's a lot of ambiguity as to why a copy of Odin would still be seeking Urth, especially if that copy is actually a Primal.

Do any primals really have wills of their own?

Take Titan for instance, the Kobolds' vision of Titan is a benevolent father figure who protects them from harm, and that's what he does.
Garuda, from what I recall, is supposedly responsible for taking away the Ixal's wings (though we know this isn't true,) and only by appeasing her can the Ixal ever regain the ability fly. Garuda thus manifests as a cruel and greedy goddess demanding loyalty and tribute from her subjects.

Primals are what the summoner makes of them. It's feasable that whomever created zanketsuken in the first place could have been attempting to create an ultimate weapon for himself, and in his vanity conjured a sword that endlessly seeks out a perfect warrior to wield it.

I suppose this all falls well within the realm of ancient aliens in egypt being possible though.

**WyrahFhurrst** · 09-21-2015 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Februs

SNIP.

I fairly certain Urth is dead. Unless Unukhalai is Urth (that would certainly be a twist), Urth probably died during the fall of Allag, or several years later.

Further, the blade is an Eikon, not a Primal. It's something more powerful than a Primal, though that could mean that Odin, being a construct of the blade's power, may actually be considered a Primal under the thrall of the sword-Eikon Zantetsuken.

**Velox** · 09-21-2015 01:10 PM

So based off all the lore we know so far, the timeline would go like this

Urth causes trouble for the Allagans. (do we know what she was doing?)
Allagans pursue Urth.
Urth calls for the famous warrior Odin to aid her.
During Odin's trip down south, he comes in contact with another warrior who wants to fight (we can assume he's possessed to want nothing but bloodshed)
This unknown warrior is extremely skilled and is the first person to ever come close to beating Odin.
Odin is impressed with his skill, and ultimately ends up taking his blade (which turns out to be the Zantesuken). Most likely he was seduced to pick it up.
Odin becomes possessed by the sword to desire combat and bloodshed.
Odin arrives in the Shroud, but instead of helping Urth, now kills her.
Allagans get wind of this and go about researching what happened.
Allagans come across Odin, who then attacks them.
Allagans are getting their asses handed to them.
Wiyu, the most powerful of summoners, sacrifices his own lifeforce to seal Odin away.

I hope I didn't miss anything.

What we know is that, for reasons unknown, Zantesuken is the primal here. The sword itself desires to possess the strongest of the strong (it might have an ultimate goal that we don't know of yet). After its host is defeated, it consumes the next person who was strong enough to destroy the previous avatar. We can assume that Odin, as a warrior, was a man of EXCEPTIONAL skill to be able to defeat the previous Zantesuken host and the attacking Allagan force. We know Wiyu sealed Odin, but we don't know. I think it's safe that we can assume one of two scenarios.
1) None of the Allagans there had the strength to beat Odin, so the only way to win was the sealing.
2) Wiyu, being a genius, figured out that it was the sword itself that was possessed. Knowing that, he decided to seal it away since he knew that by defeating Odin, the sword would have taken over his own soul (being the next strongest being), and possibly destroy the entire Empire using Wiyu's power.

What we are sure about is that Zantesuken is like the One Ring from the LotR universe. It's an object, but has a small amount of sentience that allows it to sway the minds of men to do its own bidding. The One Ring desired to return to its creator by using its hosts (ringbearers) as tools to get there. Zantesuken desires to find the strongest host in the world, or at least one with a certain level of strength to achieve some unknown goal, and uses his hosts to kill each other until that goal is met. We also know that, unlike the One Ring (which was forged as an object), Zantesuken is a primal. We can assume that, some time ago, a group of beings created it through prayer. Primals are given form based on their follower's beliefs. That form doesn't necessarily have to be a walking-talking creature. Zantesuken was given the form of what they desired most, which was probably a weapon that could smite all foes to establish a dominance over the world. However, for whatever reason, Zantesuken is no longer in the possession of these beings who created it. It still retains its worshipers' desires though as long as it exists and acts through whoever picks it up instead.

EDIT:

To add my own headcanon here. I think the creators of Zantesuken are still alive (obviously not the same ones, but generations after generations) supplying it with the prayers it needs to sustain itself. Because of this, I assume it was their goal all along for Zantesuken to be passed around the world in such a matter for thousands of years. It's my belief that, at some point in the future, Zantesuken will finally find the person who has the strength the original creators desired. Once it does, it will return to the origin of its birth. Zantesuken possesses not only the body of the person, but also absorbs his will, his experience, his lifeforce, his knowledge, and his power. Zantesuken was created to gather all this information so that it becomes a super weapon for its creators.

Thread: The Dark Divinity 3.0

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