The Dark Divinity 3.0

**Kaiser-Ace** · 09-20-2015 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Shirobi

Odin, Urth, and (Presumably Wiyu) are not dead, they are somehow connected to the Warring Triad which were locked inside the ship near Helix.

The thing locked inside Urth's Font was just the sword.

That's taking a leap of faith on the head cannon train.

Though it is an interesting idea that the sword was sealed in the crystal rather than Odin's body.

But for now Primals are Primals and Eikons are Eikons. Unakale seems to have been hinting at the idea that Eikons are fundamentally diffrent beings at a basic level.

While Primals are simply a summoner's thoughts given form using Aether as a catalyst (Totally called that one BTW) while Eikons seem to be living beings who don't need to be summoned. Thus why they could potentially be far more dangerous.

**Shirobi** · 09-20-2015 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

That's taking a leap of faith on the head cannon train.

Though it is an interesting idea that the sword was sealed in the crystal rather than Odin's body.

But for now Primals are Primals and Eikons are Eikons. Unakale seems to have been hinting at the idea that Eikons are fundamentally diffrent beings at a basic level.

While Primals are simply a summoner's thoughts given form using Aether as a catalyst (Totally called that one BTW) while Eikons seem to be living beings who don't need to be summoned. Thus why they could potentially be far more dangerous.

The idea that the 3 are the riad was expressed in a dev chat. Only leap of faith is that it was the sword locked in the font. The actual Odin is apparently locked in a ship somewhere, so what else could be locked in there?

And they specfically stated that Eikons and Primals are the same thing. Its just an older word.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...47#post3271647

**Kaiser-Ace** · 09-20-2015 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Shirobi

The idea that the 3 are the riad was expressed in a dev chat. Only leap of faith is that it was the sword locked in the font. The actual Odin is apparently locked in a ship somewhere, so what else could be locked in there?

And they specfically stated that Eikons and Primals are the same thing. Its just an older word.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...47#post3271647

OOOOOH!!! That must be from the TGS interviews then. OK

I haven't seen the transcripts yet so I'm pretty behind on the lore bomb aftermath.

**Kaiser-Ace** · 09-20-2015 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

OOOOOH!!! That must be from the TGS interviews then. OK

I haven't seen the transcripts yet so I'm pretty behind on the lore bomb aftermath.

Update: I'm not behind anymore. Lol

Thanks for the link to Fern's thread.

**myahele** · 09-21-2015 07:29 AM

Once a Primal has been manifested through the prayer of at least one individual that Primal can pretty much exists indefinitely via feeding on aether. It is only when they're defeated and go back to aether/lifestream is when they need to be re-summoned by worshipper(s). Worshippers is just a quick and easy powerboost

In other words, the sword itself is the Primal. Since nobody knows that, everyone focuses of the body it's controlling but not the sword itself. Once Odin is defeated the sword remains for then someone to wield it and the cycle continues. That's why it was sealed by Wiyu because she found out it's seacret eventually.

Aside from that, all we know is that the sword is of Othard/ Au Ra origin. Assuming that the sword has always tempered people then maybe the Original Odin possessed the echo and through that, was able to harness it's power?

**Februs** · 09-21-2015 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by myahele

Aside from that, all we know is that the sword is of Othard/ Au Ra origin. Assuming that the sword has always tempered people then maybe the Original Odin possessed the echo and through that, was able to harness it's power?

It's hard to say for sure, given how little we know about the Othard and Au Ra. Saying the sword is the primal is certainly the easiest explanation, but who summoned it in the first place? and why is it so abnormal?

For one, it seems to have no will of it's own other than to seek out worthy opponents. Once it has fashioned itself a new Odin body, the body seems to have control. It can walk and talk and doesn't really bother anyone if left alone (and that's the weird part). If the sword is a primal and it's singular focus is combat, than why doesn't it actively seek out opponents or have some sort of larger agenda? ( Side note: from a gameplay standpoint, could you imagine if Odin ran around actively looking for players to kill every time his FATE popped up? That would probably scare the hell out of a lot of players lol.) Further, why does it always make its body to resemble Odin?

I think the main mystery of Odin and any future Odin content will be the unusual relationship between the body and sword.

**Velox** · 09-21-2015 01:10 PM

So based off all the lore we know so far, the timeline would go like this

Urth causes trouble for the Allagans. (do we know what she was doing?)
Allagans pursue Urth.
Urth calls for the famous warrior Odin to aid her.
During Odin's trip down south, he comes in contact with another warrior who wants to fight (we can assume he's possessed to want nothing but bloodshed)
This unknown warrior is extremely skilled and is the first person to ever come close to beating Odin.
Odin is impressed with his skill, and ultimately ends up taking his blade (which turns out to be the Zantesuken). Most likely he was seduced to pick it up.
Odin becomes possessed by the sword to desire combat and bloodshed.
Odin arrives in the Shroud, but instead of helping Urth, now kills her.
Allagans get wind of this and go about researching what happened.
Allagans come across Odin, who then attacks them.
Allagans are getting their asses handed to them.
Wiyu, the most powerful of summoners, sacrifices his own lifeforce to seal Odin away.

I hope I didn't miss anything.

What we know is that, for reasons unknown, Zantesuken is the primal here. The sword itself desires to possess the strongest of the strong (it might have an ultimate goal that we don't know of yet). After its host is defeated, it consumes the next person who was strong enough to destroy the previous avatar. We can assume that Odin, as a warrior, was a man of EXCEPTIONAL skill to be able to defeat the previous Zantesuken host and the attacking Allagan force. We know Wiyu sealed Odin, but we don't know. I think it's safe that we can assume one of two scenarios.
1) None of the Allagans there had the strength to beat Odin, so the only way to win was the sealing.
2) Wiyu, being a genius, figured out that it was the sword itself that was possessed. Knowing that, he decided to seal it away since he knew that by defeating Odin, the sword would have taken over his own soul (being the next strongest being), and possibly destroy the entire Empire using Wiyu's power.

What we are sure about is that Zantesuken is like the One Ring from the LotR universe. It's an object, but has a small amount of sentience that allows it to sway the minds of men to do its own bidding. The One Ring desired to return to its creator by using its hosts (ringbearers) as tools to get there. Zantesuken desires to find the strongest host in the world, or at least one with a certain level of strength to achieve some unknown goal, and uses his hosts to kill each other until that goal is met. We also know that, unlike the One Ring (which was forged as an object), Zantesuken is a primal. We can assume that, some time ago, a group of beings created it through prayer. Primals are given form based on their follower's beliefs. That form doesn't necessarily have to be a walking-talking creature. Zantesuken was given the form of what they desired most, which was probably a weapon that could smite all foes to establish a dominance over the world. However, for whatever reason, Zantesuken is no longer in the possession of these beings who created it. It still retains its worshipers' desires though as long as it exists and acts through whoever picks it up instead.

EDIT:

To add my own headcanon here. I think the creators of Zantesuken are still alive (obviously not the same ones, but generations after generations) supplying it with the prayers it needs to sustain itself. Because of this, I assume it was their goal all along for Zantesuken to be passed around the world in such a matter for thousands of years. It's my belief that, at some point in the future, Zantesuken will finally find the person who has the strength the original creators desired. Once it does, it will return to the origin of its birth. Zantesuken possesses not only the body of the person, but also absorbs his will, his experience, his lifeforce, his knowledge, and his power. Zantesuken was created to gather all this information so that it becomes a super weapon for its creators.

**Februs** · 09-21-2015 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Velox

Snip.

For the most part, yes. This seems to be the chain of events; however there are certain parts we don't know for sure.

1. As you said, we don't know why Urth was against the Allagans (and this is a important mystery for a couple of different reasons)

2. We don't know if Urth calls on Odin, or if Odin simply comes along, or if he was just looking to support an underdog because it would be a better fight, etc. We don't know the relationship between the two.

3. I would say that your account of how Odin got Zantetsuken is probably accurate, based on what little we know about his trip south.

4. However, the timeline of when Odin became possessed is not clear cut. The Dev's say that he "eventually" succumbs to the influence of the cursed blade. Their wording implies that this could have taken a while. Meaning it's just as likely that he could have been helping Urth for a while before he lost his marbles.

5. With that in mind, we don't know that Odin was the one who killed Urth. The Dev's stated that History is written by the victors. Odin was made out to be the bad guy by the Allagans, and they made it seem like they were the ones on Urth's side. For all we know, the Allagan's may have been the one's to kill Urth (if she is, in fact, dead), possibly even Wiyu himself did the deed, and Odin did not succumb to the sword's influence until after. This would actually make canonical sense if we think about the way influences are handled in the game. Consider that Estinien did not fall prey to Nidhogg's influence until after he let his guard down. He felt like he had finally won. He had a moment of emotional weakness, and boom. Nidhogg reared his ugly mug. The same could have happened to Odin. Upon Urth's death/capture, Odin might have finally snapped and probably killed a lot of people (possibly those "followers" of Urth's that we've heard about) before Wiyu finally sealed the blade.

**lokoxDZz** · 09-22-2015 03:30 AM

Odin his story is extremely odd, but thinking on FATE of Odin the one who beats Odin there is a WoD with protection to be tempered and the same comes back as odin on next FATE, in the case isn't the sword manifestating the strongest being that beat it until it reach the peak of its power through selection after being defeated? Where Odin was never really defeated, but it waits until someone even stronger shows up for it becomes stronger and stronger than its prior versions. In this case Odin is merely toying with everyone trying to reach absolute power by being defeated and taking the one that beat him as a idea where he "summons" that person to be his body and carry Zantetsuken again on battlefield.

So in the end... Whats Odin goal for real?

**Februs** · 09-22-2015 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by lokoxDZz

So in the end... Whats Odin goal for real?

To know that, I think we have to find out a lot more about what happened in the past between Odin, Urth, and Wiyu. Specifically, why were Urth and the Allagan's at odds? What was the conflict about and why did Odin get involved in the first place? If we figure these things out, we may have a better idea about Odin's motivations.

Personally, Odin's spoken FATE dialogue is what has all but convinced me that Odin was, in fact, a warrior no different from us back in his day who managed to cross the threshold and attain God-like Powers, but, in regards to his motivations, the only thing we have to go on is that he is seemingly still searching for Urth, who may or may not be dead (Allagans, man... weird.). It is possible that the sword is simply manifesting the version of Odin that it is most familiar with (the one from 5000 years ago) but why? Why relive the past over and over with each incarnation? From the sword's perspective, it doesn't make sense.

Thread: The Dark Divinity 3.0

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Hybrid View