Entitlement: Why I don't get it

[MatthiasS]

Allow me to begin with, I enjoy this game, and respect both the work, and the artistry of it. Art is a wonderful and amazing thing that has many layers of subjectivity. After seeing the art created by this stunning team, I feel like I know them, and I wish them all well.

That said, I keep seeing people say "Players are entitled to X" or "Devs are entitled to Y". Why do people think that anyone is entitled to anything outside of what is covered in the Terms of Service? We are all engaging in a business transaction, but players seem to forget that. Some people are displeased about the 5 month patch wait. Players aren't entitled to a patch, Developers aren't entitled to time off (by us. SE does what it does.)

Neither party is entitled to anything more then the terms laid out in our subscription contracts. We are engaging in an at will transaction. If we don't like it, we are entitled to "fire" them by not continuing to subscribe.

Remember, SE is a business, we are customers engaging in business. Emotion shouldn't enter into it. The Developers are not our friends. They don't need our compassion. They have a job, and do it.

[Colorful]

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is, or why you couldn't have made this post here either.

But yes, the developers are entitled to take a break unless Japan has some fucked up laws regarding vacation time. Otherwise they're entitled to it and they're backed up by the law. The community is also "entitled" to content updates, as that's why they're paying monthly for. Do you honestly believe each user takes even a fraction of a dollar per month of server costs? No, that money goes to funding future content.

People really need to stop making new threads when their posts could have fit in another.

[MatthiasS]

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is, or why you couldn't have made this post here either.

But yes, the developers are entitled to take a break unless Japan has some fucked up laws regarding vacation time. Otherwise they're entitled to it and they're backed up by the law. The community is also "entitled" to content updates, as that's why they're paying monthly for. Do you honestly believe each user takes even a fraction of a dollar per month of server costs? No, that money goes to funding future content.

People really need to stop making new threads when their posts could have fit in another.

In the US, Vacation time isn't required by law. Of course, I have no idea about other nations, but I can't imagine lack of vacation time being "Very fucked up". Bit of a tangent, I know. I didn't put the thread in the "November, really" thread because I was simply using an example. Players act entitled to all kinds of things. More inventory space, high end crafting, being able to clear Savage modes even if they lack skill/dedication, ect.

[Colorful]

snip

Damn, are you serious? Seems so, I googled it and the US laws state that employees aren't required to have annual leave. In my post I was comparing to Australia's (where I live) 4-5 weeks a year. Did a quick Google search:

The initial annual leave entitlement is 10 days of leave. Workers who have been employed continuously for at least one and half years shall be granted one additional day of leave for each year of service, up to a maximum of 20 days of leave.

Some countries really don't know how to treat their workers, but that's not a subject for the official forums. Still, they are entitled to vacation time.

[Fevelle]

Damn, are you serious? Seems so, I googled it and the US laws state that employees aren't required to have annual leave. In my post I was comparing to Australia's (where I live) 4-5 weeks a year. Did a quick Google search:


Some countries really don't know how to treat their workers, but that's not a subject for the official forums. Still, they are entitled to vacation time.

Was thinking the same thing. We have mandatory 30 days paid vacation in Brazil (and bonus vacation every 5 years) and I still find it underwhelming.

[Kosmos992k]

In the US, Vacation time isn't required by law. Of course, I have no idea about other nations, but I can't imagine lack of vacation time being "Very fucked up".

So, are you saying that you are so conditioned by the US business mentality that you can't understand why other countries find it advisable and/or logical to mandate come vacation time? This is why people in other countries sometimes can't believe what they see when they get a deeper look at US culture. I moved to the US from the UK a while back and after as many years as it's been I still feel the culture shock of a place where new employees feel fortunate to have 10 paid vacation days in a year. It's no wonder that Americans are so stressed out and easily annoyed, they never get any rest. I have just graduated to 20 paid days a year and feel like a rich person, but if I were to change jobs the odds are I'd start over at 10/year. I'd rather have my teeth extracted with a plumbers wrench than go back to 10 vacation days a year.

I can very much see a lack of vacation time being considered "Very fucked up" by pretty much anyone outside the USA.

Can the Lodestone be renamed to:

For anyone that played WKC, this is not a very friendly post. That game was killed early by SCEA and their selected US publisher, and left a very bitter taste in the mouths of it's players.

[adn]

unless Japan has some fucked up laws regarding vacation time.

Mandatory 5 days of paid vacation per year. Right to paid leave for 10~20 days per year. However due to corporate culture most workers in Japan are encouraged to work very long hours of overtime, so much so that it was the cause of 1/3 of Japanese suicides in 2011 iirc-- can't speak for the culture of SE but I would imagine there's at least a little bit of it going on because even in the West game development is subject to "crunch time" where teams work absurd hours to get games out the door.

[Themis]

can't speak for the culture of SE but I would imagine there's at least a little bit of it going on because even in the West game development is subject to "crunch time" where teams work absurd hours to get games out the door.

It happens in any kind of development when a deadline is approaching, it's not just specific to games development. You can tell a lot of these people haven't had to work such a demanding job before where 50+ hour work weeks (including working weekends) is expected when it comes to the crunch time.

[Asmodai]

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is, or why you couldn't have made this post here either.

But yes, the developers are entitled to take a break unless Japan has some fucked up laws regarding vacation time.

My team is allowed to take a break too but I dont let them all do it at the same time. We all have two months a year as PTO but somehow we always seem to work it out that there are enough people to complete the work while we take turns having time off.

[AzakaTonnerre]

My team is allowed to take a break too but I dont let them all do it at the same time. We all have two months a year as PTO but somehow we always seem to work it out that there are enough people to complete the work while we take turns having time off.

And the dev team may have been told they were unable to take any PTO over the last 6 or 8 months during development of Heavensward with an understanding that time off would be allowed after its release. Your team and its schedule is not the same as all teams and all schedules in every facet of business. Many business use black out time on PTO when a big deadline is approaching to ensure all resources are working to meet a tight deadline. In some industries it is quite common, even on a yearly basis, to have blackout time.

I get what you are saying, I don't disagree that they could have handled it better. But to use your cookie cutter explanation of how your team handles PTO does not make it an industry, or even business standard for every situation. That's business 101. We don't know if they had a 6 month or more PTO blackout for Heavensward, creating a situation where a whole team may have to take vacation in a compressed schedule. And to speculate either way is just simply that... speculation.