Entitlement: Why I don't get it

[MatthiasS]

Allow me to begin with, I enjoy this game, and respect both the work, and the artistry of it. Art is a wonderful and amazing thing that has many layers of subjectivity. After seeing the art created by this stunning team, I feel like I know them, and I wish them all well.

That said, I keep seeing people say "Players are entitled to X" or "Devs are entitled to Y". Why do people think that anyone is entitled to anything outside of what is covered in the Terms of Service? We are all engaging in a business transaction, but players seem to forget that. Some people are displeased about the 5 month patch wait. Players aren't entitled to a patch, Developers aren't entitled to time off (by us. SE does what it does.)

Neither party is entitled to anything more then the terms laid out in our subscription contracts. We are engaging in an at will transaction. If we don't like it, we are entitled to "fire" them by not continuing to subscribe.

Remember, SE is a business, we are customers engaging in business. Emotion shouldn't enter into it. The Developers are not our friends. They don't need our compassion. They have a job, and do it.

[Colorful]

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is, or why you couldn't have made this post here either.

But yes, the developers are entitled to take a break unless Japan has some fucked up laws regarding vacation time. Otherwise they're entitled to it and they're backed up by the law. The community is also "entitled" to content updates, as that's why they're paying monthly for. Do you honestly believe each user takes even a fraction of a dollar per month of server costs? No, that money goes to funding future content.

People really need to stop making new threads when their posts could have fit in another.

[Monoman]

It's a very logical way to look at things and I completely agree. Unfortunately for businesses (especially in entertainment), you have to appear like a friend more often than not since there is nothing worse than an image that you are not and the customers become entitled by that fact. So depending on the business, it's just part of the business.

[MatthiasS]

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is, or why you couldn't have made this post here either.

But yes, the developers are entitled to take a break unless Japan has some fucked up laws regarding vacation time. Otherwise they're entitled to it and they're backed up by the law. The community is also "entitled" to content updates, as that's why they're paying monthly for. Do you honestly believe each user takes even a fraction of a dollar per month of server costs? No, that money goes to funding future content.

People really need to stop making new threads when their posts could have fit in another.

In the US, Vacation time isn't required by law. Of course, I have no idea about other nations, but I can't imagine lack of vacation time being "Very fucked up". Bit of a tangent, I know. I didn't put the thread in the "November, really" thread because I was simply using an example. Players act entitled to all kinds of things. More inventory space, high end crafting, being able to clear Savage modes even if they lack skill/dedication, ect.

[Alberel]

The thing is no one really says "I am entitled to X", it's usually people on the other side of the debate claiming they are saying that and putting words in their mouths in an attempt to silence complaints. I think to some degree this is more an issue of the word 'entitled' being overused and thrown all over the place when it's not even relevant.

As paying customers there is a degree of expectation that we will be given X content for our Y money. That's not acting entitled, that is just how the service works. When the devs delay the release of new content we are essentially getting less for our money. The current lack of fun things to do in game for most people at the moment has also left most of the population waiting for 3.1, so having it postponed when it's all most of us have to look forward to is doubly frustrating.

Basically people are bored because the expansion left us at 60 with less to do than when we were at 50 and now the patch expected to fix that has been delayed leaving us with a five month gap when they previously said it would be three. That is not acting entitled. That is being annoyed that the quality of the game is going downhill. If the devs need a break then by all means let them have one, but this should have been planned in such a way that it didn't cause a two month delay to the release of new content when the game is desperately in need of something to keep players paying their subscriptions.

This delay is in no one's interests so it's justified for the players to voice their concerns about it.

[drmambo1999]

I agree with this mostly aside from that last bit. I think compassion can go a long way with this kind of thing. Yes they have a job to do and are getting paid, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated like human beings. Emotion shouldn't be a part of business but it inevitably is because we are all human. I am a firm believer in positive reinforcement while also knowing when to be firm. Okay with that tangent out of the way, back on topic.

I honestly think you described one of the reasons why this "entitled attitude " is a thing in your post. We all know no one reads the terms of service agreement and therefor we have plenty of people speaking out on how "they feel" things should be instead of how things actually are.

I don't really think it is all that bad to express the want or need for change though as that is really the only way things will in fact change. For example, I sort of agree that EU players should be able to transfer to their server for free as they have been inconvenienced just the same as NA players have been by this maintenance. I don't think that is asking too much, BUT at the same time, I am not sure they are "entitled" to it either. After all, there was no official agreement made for such a thing.

It would just be a nice thing to do which in turn COULD benefit business. Then again, maybe it won't. Either way, I agree that the entitled attitude can be quite annoying when it comes to players whining for things they were never promised because they "don't want to work for what they get."

[adn]

unless Japan has some fucked up laws regarding vacation time.

Mandatory 5 days of paid vacation per year. Right to paid leave for 10~20 days per year. However due to corporate culture most workers in Japan are encouraged to work very long hours of overtime, so much so that it was the cause of 1/3 of Japanese suicides in 2011 iirc-- can't speak for the culture of SE but I would imagine there's at least a little bit of it going on because even in the West game development is subject to "crunch time" where teams work absurd hours to get games out the door.

[Colorful]

snip

Damn, are you serious? Seems so, I googled it and the US laws state that employees aren't required to have annual leave. In my post I was comparing to Australia's (where I live) 4-5 weeks a year. Did a quick Google search:

The initial annual leave entitlement is 10 days of leave. Workers who have been employed continuously for at least one and half years shall be granted one additional day of leave for each year of service, up to a maximum of 20 days of leave.

Some countries really don't know how to treat their workers, but that's not a subject for the official forums. Still, they are entitled to vacation time.

[Themis]

can't speak for the culture of SE but I would imagine there's at least a little bit of it going on because even in the West game development is subject to "crunch time" where teams work absurd hours to get games out the door.

It happens in any kind of development when a deadline is approaching, it's not just specific to games development. You can tell a lot of these people haven't had to work such a demanding job before where 50+ hour work weeks (including working weekends) is expected when it comes to the crunch time.

[Fevelle]

Damn, are you serious? Seems so, I googled it and the US laws state that employees aren't required to have annual leave. In my post I was comparing to Australia's (where I live) 4-5 weeks a year. Did a quick Google search:


Some countries really don't know how to treat their workers, but that's not a subject for the official forums. Still, they are entitled to vacation time.

Was thinking the same thing. We have mandatory 30 days paid vacation in Brazil (and bonus vacation every 5 years) and I still find it underwhelming.