Small change to endgame to help.

[Sylve]

-.

As opposed to what?
We could use the 'traditional' Raiding style.
(Room full of trash)-(Corridor full of trash)-(Room full of trash)-(Corridor full of trash)-(Room full of trash)-(Corridor full of trash)-(Boss)
With the trash mobs respawning after an hour or so and forcing you to run all the way back in from the very beginning of the run if you wipe.

It was always so much fun to spend an hour+ just clearing trash so we could attempt a boss. And then reclearing that trash every single time we ended for the day and came back in or wiped a few times.

So uh, i like the way the Raids are set up here. Barely any trash mobs, if any at all, just gather your group and start pounding away on the boss.

[zcrash970]

As opposed to what?
We could use the 'traditional' Raiding style.
(Room full of trash)-(Corridor full of trash)-(Room full of trash)-(Corridor full of trash)-(Room full of trash)-(Corridor full of trash)-(Boss)
With the trash mobs respawning after an hour or so and forcing you to run all the way back in from the very beginning of the run if you wipe.

It was always so much fun to spend an hour+ just clearing trash so we could attempt a boss. And then reclearing that trash every single time we ended for the day and came back in or wiped a few times.

So uh, i like the way the Raids are set up here. Barely any trash mobs, if any at all, just gather your group and start pounding away on the boss.

Shhhhhh...You're gonna ruin their nostalgia

[Yukiko]

You don't need the best gear if you don't do raids...

First of: he didnt say "free gear", but you are using nice polemic!
And ohh, wait: You are getting BiS from hardest raid uhm... yea, for what?
You dont need it if you already beaten the HARDEST raid, so i guess your argument fails there!

Edit:
What we have is a lack of mid game content and the learning curve (mostly gearlock) is way too high between content. From Ravana to AS1 its a BIG jump... there isnt anything inbetween!

[ElHeggunte]

What we have is a lack of mid game content and the learning curve (mostly gearlock) is way too high between content. From Ravana to AS1 its a BIG jump... there isnt anything inbetween!

We haven't had our mid-ranged content patch yet. If it's anything like the trend we had in ARR, 3.1 will be our first "mid-ranged" patch with the inclusion of the 24-man Void Ark. If it's balanced anything like how the CT Trio was, it'll be harder than dungeons, but easier than the highest raids.

In fact, if we're going to continue to get a Normal and Savage mode of each new 8-man raid, I would expect the following 24-man to be the same or maybe slightly more difficult than the 8-man Normal mode that preceded it. So I expect Void Ark will be just a step above Alexander Normal in terms of difficulty and drop i190-195 equipment.

Of course it'll still wind up being "too easy" since most players are already going to be way ahead of the gear curve, but I digress.

[ShaneDawn]

@Yukiko.

No one was clearing A3S with the initial i190 gear we had wheb Alex Savage was released. The weekly gear was a necessity to even clear A4S for now... And that's only with the very best teams in the game. So yes, I would argue that you *need* a set amount of the best gear in the game to clear all the floors. Not the from the laat turn necessarily, but that's just semantics.

I don't disagree that we need more midcore content. Asking it the rewards to be on-par with the hardest content, however, is absurd. We'll be getting Void Ark next patch, with the drops probably being i200. They could also add a new extreme/trial at some point with i205 weps (much like Shiva Ex in 2,4) but I doubt it's going to happen. Would love a Singularity Reactor EX tho!

[Yukiko]

@Yukiko.

No one was clearing A3S with the initial i190 gear we had wheb Alex Savage was released. The weekly gear was a necessity to even clear A4S for now... And that's only with the very best teams in the game. So yes, I would argue that you *need* a set amount of the best gear in the game to clear all the floors. Not the from the laat turn necessarily, but that's just semantics.

I don't disagree that we need more midcore content. Asking it the rewards to be on-par with the hardest content, however, is absurd. We'll be getting Void Ark next patch, with the drops probably being i200. They could also add a new extreme/trial at some point with i205 weps (much like Shiva Ex in 2,4) but I doubt it's going to happen. Would love a Singularity Reactor EX tho!

Because crafters could not craft while locked behind books you have to farm a lot blue and red scripts...
Because weekly cap of 450, you know, eso stuff? o_O
Because not all were willing to drop paladin from their groups
and many more reasons!

Try to understand and not just read:
So, you beat AS1 and get a ring, you already BEATEN AS1 and dont need the RING at all...
What about AS4, you will get a Weapon, but then you already have BEATEN it and you dont need that weapon at all...
Undergearing was ment to use the GEAR with that you have beaten it the first time and dont make it EASIER because most of the eliteists are using challenge as argument to have said BiS gear locked behind HARDEST content...
But well, should have guessed such an answer...

[ElHeggunte]

So, you beat AS1 and get a ring, you already BEATEN AS1 and dont need the RING at all...
What about AS4, you will get a Weapon, but then you already have BEATEN it and you dont need that weapon at all...

This is kind of a short-sighted view. That ring you got from AS1 obviously wasn't necessary to clear AS1, so it's "useless" so far as subsequent AS1 clears are concerned besides making them slightly easier. However, the larger purpose of that ring is to give you a stepping stone towards the progressively more difficult AS2, 3, and 4. On that same token, while the AS4 weapon is "useless" for Alex Savage progression since you have to clear AS4 to get it in the first place, it's still going to be a stepping stone for future, steadily more difficult content.

[Yukiko]

This is kind of a short-sighted view. That ring you got from AS1 obviously wasn't necessary to clear AS1, so it's "useless" so far as subsequent AS1 clears are concerned besides making them slightly easier. However, the larger purpose of that ring is to give you a stepping stone towards the progressively more difficult AS2, 3, and 4. On that same token, while the AS4 weapon is "useless" for Alex Savage progression since you have to clear AS4 to get it in the first place, it's still going to be a stepping stone for future, steadily more difficult content.

You dont play many games, do you?

[ShaneDawn]

Because crafters could not craft while locked behind books you have to farm a lot blue and red scripts...
Because weekly cap of 450, you know, eso stuff? o_O
Because not all were willing to drop paladin from their groups
and many more reasons!

Try to understand and not just read:
So, you beat AS1 and get a ring, you already BEATEN AS1 and dont need the RING at all...
What about AS4, you will get a Weapon, but then you already have BEATEN it and you dont need that weapon at all...
Undergearing was ment to use the GEAR with that you have beaten it the first time and dont make it EASIER because most of the eliteists are using challenge as argument to have said BiS gear locked behind HARDEST content...
But well, should have guessed such an answer...

Wow, so now you pull the big bad elitists card? Why are you acting so hostile anyways.

True, a lot of people think, myself included, that the best gear should be gated behind the hardest content. We can argue all we want how we could also reward people with gimmicks like titles and skins instead, but see how well Savage Second Coils turned out. Vast majority of the people who did Coils did not even try them. Why is that? Because they didn't feel worth the effort most likely. People were doing Coils for the story, the gear and the awesome fights. Now that we have the Story Mode as its own instance, what would we have left if we made the gear accessible to everyone as well? The fights? Skill+Effort->Rewards should be the logical implication always. What's the problem with that line of thinking?

On the larger scale of things, what is not having the very best gear away from you, considering that we vastly overgear 99% of the content as is? Right now, the gear drops from Savage raids work as an incentive to do the raids, but also help every team to an extent with the weekly drops, possibly making raid teams outside the 0,1% of the player base also progress.

To be honest, it sounds to me like if you have this strong of a view of "all thee nasty elitisties taking my loot and fun", then this is not the right game for you. This is how a Realm Reborn gear progression has been working for quite some time. To get the very best of the very best, you need to do the hardest content. There will however be a new line of Relic weapons, which will probably involve another mindless grind, that actually gives better weapons than their raid equivalents. Anyone can eventually get gear comparable to that as well. If you're a fan of "everything for everyone!" in terms of gear, however, try a game like Guild Wars 2.

As a side-note, sounding less condescending and bitter would probably help getting healthier discussions about the topic rather than flaming on someone who does not agree with you and questioning their intelligence.

[MentheusDreyar]

You dont play many games, do you?

You don't play many progression games, do you?

See how stupid comments work against you too?

Anyway, ElHeggunte is spot on, the rewards are to help you progress in the content after (hence PROGRESSION content), where you get the idea we complete content to get rewards to complete the content we can clear without it is beyond me I'd question your intelligence if i were you as many others will do it for you, as you are making zero sense...