"Hi, im new"

[Geist]

"I am new" usually means "I am too lazy to do my homework before entering the instance" or "You might think that I am less skilled player, but do not worry, I am actually quite good, but you can't see it, because I am new"... I don't see the point to lower morale before the run even starts.

Sorry, but I guess we don't see exactly eye to eye on this matter. I'll take someone telling me straight up that they're totally green about the dungeon we're running anyday, rather than ending up in deep trouble halfway through the instance: it's both more honest and practical, and it gives people a chance to -share- what they know (if they do), to anticipate problems and find ways to overcome them with the tools (team roles / jobs / skills) you possess.

Also, while I don't mind documenting myself before entering a new place for the first time, videos and strategies posted on the net are only a way - an approach, if you'd rather like - to a dungeon or a boss fight.

I believe we can at least agree on this: it's one thing to develop learned reflexes and good situational awareness because you've been practicing your job, whereas the former may allow grave mistakes if you stick to a rigid script just enough (which is a bit different from knowing/adapting to the mechanics and avoiding things you shouldn't step into). Folks like MTQ Videos and Mr. Happy may provide you with insight, but they don't exactly prepare you for the time something doesn't go "just as planned" - that's when your experience and learning should kick in and fill the blanks, I assume.

"Instant queues". Honestly, the hardest thing about tanking is persuading yourself that you are doing good job, while paying attention to mistakes of your "awesome" dps comrades, just in case they would start pointing out yours. Unfortunatelly, until we get at least some kind of dps meters, the tanks and healers are always going to be the primary target of blame.

Being a tank requires patience: being a healer, as Kaiser among others noted above, can be even harder depending on the circumstances. At the same time, a party should be about teamwork... hence, we have to try to actually be patient and relatable for others to improve and/or learn the ropes - if they don't put effort into it, it's legitimately on them by then.

With this, I'm not trying to be dismissive of your opinion here, or the strain posed by the situation as I've met my share of grief from overeager or careless companions, and it is undisputable that with so many of us around, "here be dragons" (poorly performing players; though I'll take them anyday in place of a single troll). On top of things, Duty Finder's random nature doesn't help with it.

At the same time, we should be there to provide the kind of support videos and published strats cannot offer.

Just my two gil coins.

[Archaell]

Leafs willing to learn aren't the issue with "I am new". Players who know they are going to underperform anyway and so don't bother to watch guides, are, I am sorry to say it, annoying. No problem if we wipe, when they know what to do, but just can't get it right during few attempts. The problem is when they are underperforming and at the same time have no clue about mechanics and expect others to carry them, while it would take 10 min. to read and play better, even tho it may not be optimal for the lack of experience. Also seeing guide often helps more than fellow party member's words.

Imo it helps to imagine you are going to do the run with yourself alone. If you go in blindly, your chances of getting through are quite slim and there are going to be many easily preventable wipes. The same way with performance. Imagine that rest of the group would put in same effort as you do. Would you be able to clear the dungeon? If yes - good. If no - then there is a lot of work to be done.

[bounddreamer]

Threads like these are why I'm terrified of tanking through the Duty Finder. I'm not a very good tank, and I'd like to be a better tank, but if I'm just going to get kicked for losing aggro or whatever, how am I ever going to improve? I dread the leveling roulette because certain dungeons are really hard for me to tank. Most days I don't even do it.

Don't be scared of Duty Finder peeps. For the most part, I have encountered polite, responsive people and I was only ever kicked out of a dungeon once (justifiably) for failing to hold aggro. I've gotten some good tips from DF groups. You'll encounter people running alt jobs who will be patient because they've been there, too, and they're willing to bear with you through your learning curve. I mean, yeah, there's some horror stories on the forum about DF people but you don't hear about the good stories as well. Personally I'm always patient with whoever is in my group unless they're being jerks.

And you may get folks such as myself running on alt jobs but more than happy to offer tips and give you leeway if you show you're willing to learn. It's awesome to offer a tip to someone and watch them put it into use immediately.

[Cynthis]

Threads like these are why I'm terrified of tanking through the Duty Finder. I'm not a very good tank, and I'd like to be a better tank, but if I'm just going to get kicked for losing aggro or whatever, how am I ever going to improve? I dread the leveling roulette because certain dungeons are really hard for me to tank. Most days I don't even do it.

I know that feeling well. I am not a tank but I am a completionist so I always max out all classes but I NEVER do leveling roulette as tank because I struggle with tanking large groups and often lose one or two mobs. Since people have no patience for that I end up leveling tanks through trial roulette, since tanking one target is much easier, and through doing hunts. The problem is none of those two things help me learn crowd control so it's a vicious circle.

[MentheusDreyar]

Snip

You shouldn't worry about losing the odd mob from a large group, the DPS aren't made of paper, they can take hits from single mobs, if they've pulled aggro chances are the mob is nearly dead (unless they hit it before you got aggro) and its not worth trying to take back. Losing the odd mob is better than losing most of the group, and if the DPS are even semi competent they'll focus it down anyway. As a MNK if i pull i'll just switch target unless i think i can kill it quickly.

Ultimately though, if they moan about it just ignore them, unless you know you messed up then just apologize, they can't really do anything but kick you which means you just re-queue for an instant pop and they are stuck waiting. It's never worth kicking a tank unless they are purely useless and have no idea how to tank at all.

[Garotte14]

Threads like these are why I'm terrified of tanking through the Duty Finder. I'm not a very good tank, and I'd like to be a better tank, but if I'm just going to get kicked for losing aggro or whatever, how am I ever going to improve? I dread the leveling roulette because certain dungeons are really hard for me to tank. Most days I don't even do it.

You shouldn't let that bother you. If you want to tank, then do it and don't worry about others. Biggest advice I could give is just do it, and if someone says something, just politely say, "I'm still learning, any advice on how to get better?" Even they were being an ass, seeing your polite, non-defensive response will calm things and I bet they give you some tips and pointers and it'll be a great run. If you just ignore it or get defensive and start the rage, it'll lead to a kick

[Garotte14]

"Instant queues". Honestly, the hardest thing about tanking is persuading yourself that you are doing good job, while paying attention to mistakes of your "awesome" dps comrades, just in case they would start pointing out yours.

Please don't listen to this. This is toxic. Just play the game and if anyone offers you some advice, take it with a grain of salt. Don't bash on them for their mistakes.

[Archaell]

Please don't listen to this. This is toxic. Just play the game and if anyone offers you some advice, take it with a grain of salt. Don't bash on them for their mistakes.

It's not toxic at all. There is difference between bashing and pointing out where the performance can be improved. If somebody wants to help you, you are obliged to help them in return. It's perfectly cooperative. Now, if they blame you and tell you to reroll different job, then of course your advice is sometimes going to lead to toxic behaviour (which was already there in the first place), but that's not your fault and quite often it results in everybody focusing on their job and run continues without additional remarks.

Anyways, the most important thing is to keep tanks tanking and healers healing, which is quite difficult, when poorly played (aoe-blind, number-blind, mob-pulling) dps can make tank or healer seem like they are doing poor job.

[File2ish]

Threads like these are why I'm terrified of tanking through the Duty Finder. I'm not a very good tank, and I'd like to be a better tank, but if I'm just going to get kicked for losing aggro or whatever, how am I ever going to improve? I dread the leveling roulette because certain dungeons are really hard for me to tank. Most days I don't even do it.

At first i was scared to tank because of all the crap they can get. But it's actually really easy once you get the hang of it.

There are times when you get overzealous people not letting a newer tank have a chance to build enmity, but generally you get indifferent people who will be patient, if not be very nice and patient/mean and impatient.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Healing always makes me nervous.

The pressure of being capable of wiping the while thing with one bad judgment call is nurve wracking as a rookie healer. When leveling Sch/Sum I at least had Eos to back me up. But as a Whm and Ast it's all on me alone