i got a question for you dps..

[JackFross]

This is coming from a SCOB(savage) and FCOB progression cleared Pld.

All I was referencing was the fact you swapped the skill order in your response. I'll assume it was a typo. I didn't say Provoke>Lob is the best way to get hate back, but if you're doing casual content such as Ultros and your dps aren't bags of dicks, it's all you should need in basically every situation unless you're massively undergeared.

The bolded meaning they see you provoke and they lay off slightly, switch targets, or use their enmity drop skill. It's casual content, it's not raid we're talking about. If you're losing hate in a raid setting, you're doing something wrong and should fix your playstyle or yell at your WHM for spamming C3 when it's not needed. You should never have to resort to Provoke to get hate back except for a tank swap in a raid setting.

[Aiselia]

an add spawns

you're better off using it for add spawns

Assuming a single boss encounter

'Round my parts, "single boss encounter" means that there's only a single boss for the encounter, no adds, so you wouldn't need to save it for adds in a single boss encounter, so, I mean, unless "single boss encounter" means something different for you, there's that context.

If I use it randomly just because the cooldown is up

I'll precast it for my opener but past that I won't use it unless I need to.

so the tank could keep aggro on initial pull

Initial pull isn't "using it randomly". Initial pull is where openers tend to happen.

Hooray for context.

[Malevicton]

hurray for context that you added after the fact :P

Don't even need it for the opener, either. More of a "why not" thing

[Aiselia]

hurray for context that you added after the fact :P

I added the context to another person's post that I was replying to after I had replied to them? Are you accusing me of being a time traveler? Man, I wish I was. Find out what the biggest lottery jackpot ever was and play the winning number for that.

Don't even need it for the opener, either. More of a "why not" thing

Right, and I said "whether you need it or not". It doesn't reduce your DPS to use it in your opener, but it helps to give the tank a wider lead in threat, allowing them to use more DPS skills/stance if it wasn't needed, or get more threat if it is. It's part of working as a team rather than just working in a group.

[JackFross]

Right, and I said "whether you need it or not". It doesn't reduce your DPS to use it in your opener, but it helps to give the tank a wider lead in threat, allowing them to use more DPS skills/stance if it wasn't needed, or get more threat if it is. It's part of working as a team rather than just working in a group.

It's the same reason you should expect your Ninja to throw Silhouette on you as the Main Tank on the pull, every pull. Because you can pop it pre-pull, so why not? It's also the same reason you should expect your Ninja to be ready to throw Smoke Balls at parts where your healer threatens hate or toss one on the other melee on pull to slow their hate generation and let the MT open with more dps moves. As a DPS, you should work *with* the party, not against it.

As Dragoon, if I'm running casual content and my MT dies and I have hate, the second I see hate switch to the OT, I hit Elusive Jump, even if it's a dps loss. I pass my lead to them and give myself a buffer to not worry about pulling it back. Everyone breathes easier and I lose 10-15 dps. Which is still 10-15 more than other dps lose by using Quelling Strikes.


Like, yeah. The tank SHOULD be able to hold against you without Quelling, but if you USE it, you help the raid as a whole without doing a single thing to hinder yourself. I don't see how this is something that needs to be debated.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

#1 Its a DPS loss usually, if not used at the start of a fight and even then there shouldnt be a reason for having to us it.

#2 If you are tanking properly this should never be an issue past the very early levels of the game. Tanks need next to no lead in time, and, barring special fight mechanics, should never be coming close to losing threat to the DPS.

TL;DR Stop trying to tank in DPS gear and using your DPS stance and this should never be a problem for you.

I hate to tell you this but STR (DPS) gear actually increases our emnity. So yeah Im just gonna keep using my slaying accessories while you can keep thinking I am stupid for not having bloated VIT and rocking useless Fending gear.

[Dante_V]

It's the same reason you should expect your Ninja to throw Silhouette on you as the Main Tank on the pull, every pull. Because you can pop it pre-pull, so why not? It's also the same reason you should expect your Ninja to be ready to throw Smoke Balls .

The ninja enmity moves aren't up anywhere near every pull.

If dps is doing enough damage to steal aggro on a single mob, let them have it. They won't die and their dps should be enough to kill it outright. If they say something to you then that's on them. When I take aggro the enemies dead within the next 5 seconds and a defensive debuff is activated. This is a complete non issue. If the issue is mouthy dps then yeah, there is plenty of that in this game. There is no enemy in the game that will one on one kill a dps unless the dps are so undergeared they shouldn't be there or it's a raid scenario in which you don't really see this happening as pulls are typically pre planned.

[Ramath]

I had a t-shirt made...

"Summoner. If I have hate, someone else f*cked up."

Seriously, though... In the vast majority of this game, either the DPS check is too tight to cater to sub-par tanks, or the content isn't dangerous enough to matter. Yes, I occasionally pull a couple stray adds off the tank in large trash pulls, but whatever turns to me dies too fast to really matter. Yes, random DF groups can pair top-notch DPS with scrub tanks who don't have a prayer of a chance holding hate. However, in that instance, the trash won't pose and serious threat to the over-geared DPS. If they die, it's because they stood in AoEs, in which case even holding hate on the trash won't fix their stupidity.

Otherwise, a decent tanks shouldn't have issues holding hate. If they do, they should probably take a look at themselves first before pointing fingers.

[Hitoseijuro]

I dont think bards need to worry about quelling strikes(2.5 bard was a whole new monster with opening enmity), I don't see summoners needing to worry about quelling strikes, I do think as a blm if you have a bard, for your opener using quelling strikes would be beneficial in the chance you happen to get lucky crits in, 10-14k crits in an opener or 2 lucky ones in can really spin a mob around especially if the tank has not finished his enmity combo. Honestly, it lasts 15 seconds, you probably only need 10 seconds of its cushion so you can pre-pop it before a pull.

[Creus]

Although I don't main a tanking class I had a few experiences like these while tanking. It's like they're main goal is to pull off aggro from you because they think it's cool or something.

I think its both the Tank and the DPS's responsibility really. Like what people said, all tanks have access to Provoke, so tanks can just steal the aggro back and rev up the enmity generation if that's the game they wanna play. If they unload everything as DPS then just step it up a notch and keep up. Stealing aggro from a tank is a no-no. I usually just let them die a few times or just keep up since most players don't really have the time to waste when playing.

As a DPS I do what I can to maximize my damage but my main priority really is to not steal aggro, that is the most important thing. If the tank didn't generate enough enmity and the DPS just doesn't wanna let up then it's really gonna be a bad day. If you're a DPS that does this shame on you.

But then again what do I know.