i got a question for you dps..

[ShinSenpai]

I don't MCH so I didn't realize Feint is something that's actually recommended. At least some class is getting a use out of it xD

More use than One Ilm Punch in a PvE setting.

[Sailysium]

As a Monk, or any other job without detaunt, I just try to switch targets for awhile if i notice that the tank is about to lose aggro over me to give them time to secure aggro back (unless the mob is obviously about to die). Honestly I just feel that many players aren't mindful enough about the nuances of the other 2 perspectives outside of dps and are quick to make knee-jerk reactions because they aren't often tracking their own enmity when it's very high.

[Leonus]

As a tank i dont need a lot of time to get going but if i see a fire2 or dragonfire dive land between my tomahawk/shield lob gcd and the next that will be overpower/flash ill likely stop and let thay dps die to the group they just pulled. If they cant wait the extra 2 seconds for a single tank aoe to hit they can tank it themselves.

I love this, simply because i feel if the tank lets me die, i will stay dead. I will go afk, and the party can pick up what the tank let me drop. (This is with dungeons).

In raids, if i pulled hate, regardless of when, it's too late. Especially with the double standard against dps (You didn't do enough dps, we didn't beat enrage vs Calm down on dps, you're riding my threat). As a dps you either DO max dps or you DON'T. Most competent dps don't unload before the tank hits something, but if I start tanking after the fight has already begun, someone is lacking, and it's not me.

I just really hate this "Let the dps die to teach them a lesson" thing that most people take up. Makes me just want to stay on the ground and go afk anytime i purposefully feel that a tank or healer lets that happen (which isn't often). However petty it may seem, to be down a dps until they win or they loose is my lesson to them.

[bardaboo]

#1

TL;DR Stop trying to tank in DPS gear and using your DPS stance and this should never be a problem for you.

Dps gear actually helps tanks keep hate.

[bardaboo]

#1

TL;DR Stop trying to tank in DPS gear and using your DPS stance and this should never be a problem for you.

Dps gear actually helps tanks keep hate.

[Makarrov]

I love this, simply because i feel if the tank lets me die, i will stay dead. I will go afk, and the party can pick up what the tank let me drop. (This is with dungeons).

You're adding more to this hypothetical scenario here.I never said I'd let the party deal with the pack, just the dps that was so eager to get in there before the tank. I suppose it's hard to understand my position without having actually played with me. I don't go slow when I tank. I go fast enough to always keep the dps busy but not so fast that the healer is constantly running oom. I won't pull bosses unless people have >75% of their primary resource (at least in dungeons, when I was raid tanking it was obviously different). Point being, I keep a constant quick pace so when someone feels the need to run out in front of me it's like being cut in line or cut off while driving. It's nothing that couldn't have been handled, it's just a d*** move.


As I said before, I'm a long time mmo dps too. I see both sides and know what a dps jobs responsibilities are and know my capabilities as a tank are sufficient enough to hold off somewhat equally geared/skilled dps if they aren't jumping the gun.

[Hitoseijuro]

Why are you opening with a combo on a boss and not a high enmity opener leading into a combo? Where was Provoke? You know the DPS are gonna unload a massive burst to start. Do the same, then establish your combo after you've weathered the storm and need to focus on steady, long term threat generation.

Provoke is not an enmity generating ability please don't try helping other people with bad advice. Provoke only puts you over the #1 person with hate, no matter what your enmity is at. The only time to use provoke is when "someone" else has argo, not to build emnity with it.

Now if you were implying about where was provoke when they lost argo that would make sense, but due to the fact that you asked about "high enmity opener" and then followed up with where was provoke, and previously you made a horrible statement indicating that dps gear was worse to hold hate in, leads me to believe that you dont have a proper understanding of how enmity works for this game. Also bards dont lose any dps for using quelling strikes.



@ OP , it sounds like this is a problem with the dps having better gear and you being undergeared(having your weapon at the highest ilvl helps tremendously) or a rotation error on your part, It could be a little of all the above. If its the former, well, youre just going to have to deal with it the best possible way, keeping provoke(theres literally no reason to ever use it outside of argo management) ready for those times.

Honestly the attitude from the bard should tell you more than what you need to know, as any main bard will tell you, at the lv 50 cap it was really easy to pull hate off any tank with an opener if you didn't have quelling strikes up. The amount of burst and RNG from crits that you could get was absurd even compared to a blackmage back then. At 60 I have no experience with that as a lot of their kit recieved tuning, but at 50 quelling was generally your opener on bosses there's no reason why you cant still have it in there, you lose absolutely nothing using it pre-pull.

[Shirobi]

Now if you were implying about where was provoke when they lost argo that would make sense, but due to the fact that you asked about "high enmity opener" and then followed up with where was provoke, and previously you made a horrible statement indicating that dps gear was worse to hold hate in, leads me to believe that you dont have a proper understanding of how enmity works for this game. Also bards dont lose any dps for using quelling strikes.

This IS what I was implying. When he lost aggro, why did he not use Provoke?

Also, please try to be less toxic in your replies.

[Gorlioliolio]

Where are you guys finding all these dps that are so good they just rip agro right off you? My issue is that dps are so bad 90% of the time I can tank without grit and 1 agro combo at start of fight is more than enough to hold hate the rest of it. Sometimes I get a dps who comes close by the time the boss is almost dead but it's rare.

Edit: this is at 60, if your a new toon without your full agro combo or tanking stance it can be a pain against high level synced dps

[Hitoseijuro]

This IS what I was implying. When he lost aggro, why did he not use Provoke?

Also, please try to be less toxic in your replies.

There is nothing toxic in my replies, no where did I insult you, call you names, flame you, or troll you. I stated that you dont know how enmity works if someone is asking about having emnity problems and you state "TL;DR Stop trying to tank in DPS gear ".

I called you out on the provoke comment but I had already explained how your wording lead one to believe this along with other evidence. I mean you make it sound like a warrior has a high enmity opener of some sort that isnt spamming over power or spamming non combo'd butchers block for a quick hate spike which isnt an ideal opener for a single target boss. Outside of overpower/tomahawk, your main enmity is tide into your combos.

Warrior ideal opener would involve : overpower/tomahawk --> heavy swing--> maim --> storm's eye --> heavy swing--> skull sunder --> butcher's block(obviously with all your off globals thrown in between each skill, this is just for simplistic sake) if hes being outgeared by a bit, I would advise to swapping butcher's block rotation before storm's eye for : overpower/tomahawk --> heavy swing --> skull sunder--> butcher's block --> heavy swing --> maim --> storm's eye.

When you say "high enmity opener" not a combo, I have no idea what you mean, a full butcher's block combo rotation is better than any thing you can use when it comes to total enmity, its not optimal as a min/max tank rotation but its great for enmity while dealing dmg still.

over power --> over power --> over power ---> over power = 5520

over power --> heavy swing --> skull sunder --> butcher's block = 6877



Dps gear has nothing to do with losing enmity, its quite the opposite.


edit: the problem here just seems to stem from the tank having to move right away within seconds of the pull due to mechanics before even establishing any kind of hate and had problems afterward, but provoke with proper rotation will deal with this situation easily unless ofcourse you are under geared versus the dps.